EPISODE 3: My World Has Stopped And Everybody Gets To Keep Going with Marissa Baker
In this heartfelt episode I talk with guest Marissa Baker about her personal experience with loss, grief, and trying to move forward. Marissa, a self described "ray of sunshine," even in the face of the the recent loss of her father, dives deep into the emotions of shame, guilt, and overwhelming feelings following the deaths of her parent. We also touch on the logistical nightmares of funerals and unexpected health issues to the personal battles of acceptance and unanswered questions, this conversation touches on the raw and real aspects of dealing with death while trying to navigate life.
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Sarah: [00:00:00] Hi friends, this is your host, master coach and teacher Sarah Yost. You are listening to the About Death podcast, the show about living life on your own terms. Stick around if you want way more of what you want with way less anxiety.
Y'all. Today's conversation is with Marissa Baker. She is a self described ray of sunshine, and I think you'll agree that even soon after the death of her father, you can see the rays of sunshine poking through our conversation. We talk about things like shame and guilt and trying to navigate other people's feelings while also managing our own overwhelming like overwhelming, overwhelming, overwhelming feelings in the face of losing our parents.
So I hope that you will enjoy this conversation. She is pretty much an expert in transformation. She [00:01:00] helps women who have been divorced. She was divorced twice before the time she was 30 and had to overcome tons of shame and guilt around that, and is now grappling with a lot of those same emotions, but just in a completely different type of transformational experience.
So hope that you will enjoy this conversation as much as I did. Here is Marissa Baker.
Hello.
Marissa: Hi.
Sarah: Okay. Introduce yourself. Tell us what your name is and. everything else that you want us to know
Marissa: perfect. Name is Marissa Baker. I have been married and divorced twice before 30. I talk a lot about that on all of my socials. I think the best thing about me is I'm a happy go lucky ray of freaking sunshine who takes the things she's been through and just continues to learn and grow and then help other people do the same.
Sarah: Awesome. I love that about you.
Marissa: Thanks.
Sarah: We're talking cause your dad died recently.
Marissa: Yes.
Sarah: How
long ago?
Marissa: He
died on September 16th. [00:02:00] So what are we in right now? November. So less than two months ago.
Sarah: Yeah. Okay. So like just a month after my mama died, she, she, her official death date is the 14th of August.
How are you? What's it like for you?
Marissa: You know, I am starting to feel like more myself like at this point, it's just very interesting. Like, I think the one thing I keep coming back to is there is nothing on this planet that could have prepared me to lose a parent. Not a single thing, you know, like you and you've just like, they're your parents.
So. You know, you know, like death comes to everyone or whatever, but like, they're your parents. So they're going to be there forever. Or they're going to be the ones who grow old into their eighties and nineties. And you know, all of my grandparents died much older. So I never had this thought that like my dad would die at 58.
Sarah: 58.
Marissa: How old was your mom?
Sarah: 74.
Marissa: Yeah, he's not, he was not old by any means. It was [00:03:00] not really I'm not surprised, but it was not expected if that makes sense.
Sarah: Do you want to tell us what happened?
Marissa: Yeah. So he I'll start with the day of, and then give a little bit of, of history, but the day of he couldn't breathe.
My brother had left to go walk his dogs and my brother had been up with him kind of all night. Cause my dad wasn't feeling great. But I mean, ultimately my dad was kind of never feeling great. So he went to walk the dogs. I, my dad apparently couldn't breathe or something happened. He called the cops.
My brother got the ring notification on his phone and was like running home. And when he got home, the ambulance was there, they were like loading my dad up, but my dad was like vomiting gets in the ambulance and then they lost his heartbeat and they just couldn't get it back. So by the time they got to the hospital, he was already passed away.
Yeah. And so when I say like not surprised, but unexpected is, I mean, my dad just had a lot of health issues, right? He was a double amputee. He was a type two diabetic and he didn't [00:04:00] really do anything to change his health or improve his health or kind of manage the diabetes. And then once he became a double amputee, he really was not mobile.
And I think all of the things combined and he, he was a former he had struggled with drug addiction in the past. So I hadn't in a while, but I think that just affected his body over time. Sure. Yeah. And so I think all of that kind of just, his heart was like, okay, that's it. You've had enough beats.
I think it just stopped, but fun fact, and you have health issues. The hospital can decide not to do an autopsy. So they don't do an autopsy, so you don't really know. I'm just kind of like, oh. Well, I guess his heart was just like, I'm done.
Sarah: How do you feel about that?
Marissa: I think I feel a little bit better about it than like my family does.
You know what I mean? Like, I think everyone wants to answer and they want to know. And to me, I'm just like, he's gone and his health wasn't great. And if I had to give my best rational guess, I think it was either like a pulmonary embolism or a heart attack. And at the end of the day, neither matter to me, you know, because he died and he's not here.
[00:05:00] So Yeah, I mean, I think either way would suck and I don't really need that information to grieve, I don't think.
Sarah: Yeah. You don't feel like something's missing or undone just around not knowing.
Marissa: No. And well, you know, like, so the interesting part of my dad's death is that seven days before my dad died, I was at the life coach school conference in Dallas and I was with my peer coaches and we were listening to Sunny talk.
So she had done a presentation and she said a couple things that like super triggered me about my dad. She said, 80 percent of what we treat as physicians are from people not feeling their feelings, not being willing to feel.
And then she said something later that said, if life coaching were a pill, we would all be prescribing it. So I had always had this thought about my dad, that he just never had the tools to feel his feelings. And Obviously then his drug of choice in his struggle were painkillers. So like, you've got the pill, you've got the feeling.
So she like made those comments and I just started like, [00:06:00] Crying. Like just, you know, like constant tears
and,
I had gotten back to my room and I spent hours just talking to my peer coach, Jean. And I was like, I just feel like I don't have, I'm not going to have my dad that much longer. I think he's going to die soon.
I'm sad because he's been sick for a long time. And rationally, I know he loves me, but little kid inside of me is like, I don't know if my dad loves me. And I feel like I have to grieve his loss ahead of time because I don't know how much time I have left. And then what do you know, literally seven days later, he died unexpectedly.
Sarah: It's interesting. Like you wanted to pre grieve, like you were trying to prepare for it. And you know, one of the first things you said was there's nothing that could have prepared.
Marissa: I know it was more like I wanted to accept that my dad was giving me what he was able to give me and doing the best he could before I lost him because I didn't want to [00:07:00] have like regrets or bitterness or anything like that.
And I don't have bitterness, but I do have a lot of regrets, you know.
Sarah: Yeah. Do you feel like you got there? Do you feel like that processing and, and crying seshes?
Marissa: I mean, it's a new week, so I do think that it helped. And I almost feel like the universe or God or whatever it was, which was trying to just tell me in some roundabout way, you know and so I think I intuitively knew so yes, it helped.
I would have loved to have started that process and acknowledged my feelings around my father, maybe even further ahead of time, you know, we're processing them now. So I have
no choice now.
Sarah: What's it like for you? or just tell me what is surprising to you about this process?
Marissa: This is going to sound, I feel like really cliche, but like this whole, like, most jobs give you like three to five days to grieve. And I like vividly [00:08:00] remember telling my boss at like this three days is simply not enough. And I ended up taking off about like three weeks from work.
And it just felt like, My world has stopped and everybody just gets to keep going. And I was a little bit like. I feel like angry about that. Have you heard the song? Why is everybody not angry, crying out, throwing empty bottles at walls. And like, that was my thing. I'm like, why is everybody not sad and grieving and, and.
You know, in this, like with me, right. So that was really surprising to me, feeling just angry and kind of isolated and, you know, I was surrounded by a bunch of people who really cared and, and loved me and all of that. But yeah, it was just, I don't know. I feel like I'm actually surprised by a lot.
I'm surprised by the amount of guilt and shame that I have around it. Like, I don't think I anticipated like feeling guilty about like everything. Like, I'm like, why didn't I, like [00:09:00] the last time I saw him was in June and I'm like, hi, why did I not see him? Why did I not do anything? And then, you know, the other part is.
I have like questions for him where I'm like You know, one of my cousins told me that they had had a conversation, not my cousin, but his siblings, he had a conversation with them like a month before, and he was like, you know, I'm ready to die. And I just thought, well, then why don't you try, you know, like, if you knew that you were going to die, why would you not want to see me or want to talk to me or want to like curate some kind of relationship with me?
So I think I just don't really understand a lot of the thinking. And yeah, and I am also, this is kind of more of like logistically surprised by number one, the cost of funerals. Are you kidding me? I'm sorry, $20,000. And like, I remember my grandma and my uncle called and they were like, where are you going to bury him?
I said, I'm not, I'm like, I don't even have 3, 000 to [00:10:00] my name. Like, and you know, in addition to that, he had gotten a life insurance policy and all he wanted to do was leave us something and because he didn't have his life insurance for two years, they just paid it, they, they won't pay out the full amount.
So it was supposed to be like 10, 000 and they paid out like 500.
Sarah: Oh my god. Yeah. To split between them.
Marissa: Yeah. And I don't like. I could literally care less about the money. I have my own money, but like knowing that that's what he wanted. And he had texted my mom and said that I just got this life insurance policy.
And he had made a comment to that effect to me too. Like, you know, we were like walking one day at his apartment and he's like, you know, yeah, like that's fine. I would just want to try and leave you guys something. And like, he didn't have a lot. So like, he just wanted something and that was really hard, you know, and you're grieving and the life insurance is like, Nope, here's 500.
And you're like, you guys probably have billions of dollars. Yeah. So it's wild. Like you just learn certain things and you're [00:11:00] like, and then it's like, where do you have room to bury all these people? That's what I want to know. And you're charging 20, 000 for it. We got to find a better way there. Do we even have the land?
I don't think we even have the land for this. Anyways,
that's my soapbox.
Sarah: No, I'm with you. Yeah. So was he married to your mom?
Marissa: He was. He was. Yeah. And, you know, I've kind of, talked a lot with my mom about her guilt and shame. You know, my poor mother, she has survived so much and she is constantly helping other people.
But like, you know, my grandma had a stroke this past year ago and she also is the primary custody over my baby cousin, whose dad, my mom's brother had passed away. You know, when she was young. And so my mom was taking care of my grandma and taking care of my baby cousin, Skylar, who's seven. She has a lot of
attention.
And and then my brother was taking care of my dad. And so, you know, it's really hard to navigate other people's feelings because I'm like, I have my own guilt and shame. And I'm also [00:12:00] thinking I'm feeling sad because I don't know if my dad loves me and then you're like, and you're just kind of like feeling everyone else's and like, it's just,
Sarah: yeah.
Do you feel like, does it feel supportive to, to share grief about this person or not? Is it just messy?
Marissa: No, it does feel supportive when it's like a safe environment and What I have found is I'm not going to like come out and openly share. So like, even this format is really nice because it's like asking questions and allowing me to like kind of think and process and whereas like when I'm just like talking to like the people in my life, I'm like, Oh, I cried about my dad today, but like, how do you bring that up in casual conversation?
But yeah, I do think it's, it's helpful to be able to talk about it and just, you know, especially with people who understand, you know, like I know you understand and you know, my, my friend Jean, we hopped on a call after my dad died. Cause obviously we had talked about it that week before. And that was really helpful too, because she had gone through similar with her mother and having to accept.
That relationship with her mother was all that her mom [00:13:00] could give. And so a lot of like parallels. It was really nice to have been able to like have those discussions with her before and after.
Sarah: I'm glad that she has that experience because. You know, I'm finding that, you know, I'm surrounded by pretty great people, but most of them just don't know what they're talking about.
You know, they're, they're very kind and they hold space, but they don't know. And so to, you know, experience and process some of the things that I've had to, the two closest to me have they haven't lost parents, but they've lost really significant people. And so they do understand, you know, how weird everything is and that's helpful, but, but they're, They're well enough on the other side that they forgot, you know, they're not in it.
So that when I when I say something, they're like, Oh, yeah, I remember doing that too. But it's kind of like that. They're like, Oh, yeah, I did that. Yeah. And that is really gratifying, like, but but they're not able to share any of it in real time, because they don't remember, you know, that sort of closed.
That I don't know that weird [00:14:00] grief chapter is kind of closed.
Marissa: Yeah. And it is. And we, as people, I feel like we so quickly forget, right. And it does, like, even if we've been through the whole thing, like I even think about that with like my divorce content, like sometimes women come to me and I'm like, Oh, and I'm like, Oh yeah, I did.
I did go through that, but like to your point, I'm so far removed that sometimes it's hard to like myself back to a place of compassion.
Sarah: And that's why I started this because my mom's death is like the central fact of my life right now. And. I imagine will be for a while. And what the resources that I see are not that I'm seeing are not for my stage of grief.
They're, they're for just different things. And I've just been really hungry for just figuring out what is this? It's just so different.
Marissa: And I don't think that I've like researched any resources or anything like that, but I don't know, like, to your point that there's anything that would be helpful.
But yeah, there's like a [00:15:00] weird, it's so hard. I almost because my dad can't live anymore, want to freeze my life because if he can't why, why should I, you know what I mean? Like, like kind of like that song, like the whole world should fucking stop everything that we're doing for like a second, you know, and, and he deserves that.
And at the same time, the other part of me is like, but I want to make him proud and I want to move forward. And I want to meet these goals. And it means more to me now to reach these goals. And it's like, just this like weird dichotomy of like being totally frozen and also still moving at a hundred miles an hour.
It's the weirdest thing, it's also, you're kind of like at that point where it's like, okay, it's been a couple months. People kind of stop checking in. Right. You're here. And you're like, You know, you see something or you see his little like card from the obituary and you're like, oh my dad died.
Sarah: Had to go to the post office today to pick up mail. [00:16:00] They, the, the, the mail carrier stopped her mail for me and just put a note in the box. And then I've, I've been incredibly avoidant
of taking care of anything. I'm the executor, so I'm, you know, I'm supposed to be handling everything.
And anyway, so I finally went to the post office today and I had to do this whole like find the will and show my ID and like.
Just do all this and it was, it was really difficult. I was, you know, definitely, definitely crying. And, and there was this weird, like, I wanted privacy. I didn't want anybody to know what I was doing.
And I wanted them all to know, because. Not because I wanted attention, but it's like, she is dead, like, like some
it's big,
I don't know, ceremony needs to happen, or, you know,
yeah,
something. Yeah, like
Marissa: a memorial service or anything for her.
Sarah: Yeah, we did a memorial. A week and a half ago, which it was a long time between her death and the memorial, but we [00:17:00] did.
Marissa: It's so hard. Were you the one planning everything to like the funeral and stuff?
Sarah: No, thank God her two best friends She has these two best friends from kindergarten who just like have stepped in and helped me so much. They did most of the planning. One of them is an event planner and the other one is just hyper organized and on top of shit.
And they're both very cool and fun. It's been fun to get to know them. So we've just, we've worked together and I probably did 10 to 20 percent of the work and they did the rest. And I am so grateful for that because I'm just, you know, if it'd been up to me, I might not have even done it. I would have just done the very bare minimum that somebody walked me through, you know, I would not have attended to it very well.
Marissa: Yeah.
Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I think I ended up. Why I ended up doing all of, you know, that stuff. And you know, my family tried to help where they could, but I'm like, as soon as it happened, I'm like, I understand my role. You know what I mean? And so
Sarah: interesting.
Yeah. So you [00:18:00] planned it.
Marissa: Yeah. So basically all the communications like with the funeral and set up and, you know, pictures and, telling people about it and I planned like a zoom memorial because, you know, my dad's family did all to come.
They like live all over the world and that's not really something I'll probably talk about today but that was something I like had to like. Think a lot about like I understand his mom like it was hard for me to be like seven siblings and yeah it was weird but but yeah so we plan like the zoom and then like the regular oil and and then I'm like, And then I'm grieving, right?
And I'm
Sarah: the, I know,
Marissa: and I think you and I, we talked about like ADHD and the rejection and like all of that. And you know, when an ADHD person is grieving, like, I'm like, I don't want to move. Right? Like I'm either hyper focused or I'm like, just need to sit here and cry and like, not be bothered. And I couldn't like, just like constant, like got to call the funeral, got to do this, got to [00:19:00] find the money, got a headstone, which I haven't even done the headstone yet, but I did everything else. So I'm like. Good job.
Sarah: Yeah.
Good job.
Marissa: You literally did it. And I will say like, there was a lot happening in my life all at once.
It was like my dad died and 30 minutes after my dad died, my car died. Like transmission. Then I got strep throat the next day. And then meanwhile, I'm dealing with my dog who has severe separation anxiety that I've been trying to work through for months and months and months, 100 a month for that, for him and all the things.
And then, but then I'm looking at my, you know, I like have a goal to make it to 250 camps at my workout place and I'm going to make it and I'm like, ah, like that just feels so much sweeter that I'm like, yeah. I was like struggling and I still showed up and I would show up to work out and like no makeup and I'd be fucking crying, but I'm like, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna do my pushups.
Like, don't worry about it. Fine.
Sarah: [00:20:00] Yeah.
I did that too. Yeah. And basically, like, I'm fine with the crying, like, just Let me have it, like, let me, you know, let me do it and I'll, I'll manage myself. Just don't worry about it. ,
Marissa: I love, I will say I'm so thankful for the tools that I, I have learned from coaching because this would look, the screaming process would look totally different, but like to your point, I was like, if I wanna cry, I'm just going to cry.
Like I don't care who's around. I don't have to be. Like in the past, happy Marissa, just for the sake of people.
I'm not going to so it was very freeing to just be like, if I want to cry, I'm going to cry. And if I want to be happy, I'm going to give myself permission to be happy and not shame myself because my dad's dead, yeah,
It's like, well, you can't be happy. Like your dad's dead, but only two months after, like, You know, like it's those are the things that go through my brain. Like, yeah, I know. Yeah. How fucking dare you? Yeah. Try to be happy. Yeah.
Sarah: I wanted to tell you what, just this really cool question that one of my trainers asked me, I [00:21:00] went to, I went to class.
I guess the day she technically died and, I just, I hadn't run. I'm a runner and I hadn't run for several days. And all I wanted to do was go for a run and go to my class and, you know, move my body. And, but I had to go up to her and be like, Hey, my mom died today. I want to be here. And here's what she asked me.
She said, how do you want me to treat you? Which I just thought was such a cool question. I've never heard it before, even consider it, but how do you want me to treat you? And I said, normal. And if I can't handle it, I'll just leave. And so she did.
Marissa: I do love that. It's, it's nice.
It's such an easy question, but like an important one. And like every scenario after
death,
like, okay, you're at work. Yeah. How are we supposed to respond? But this is like one of the things my roommate did is like, we, we joked, you know, after my dad died and she goes, we didn't discuss this protocol.
We didn't just handle this, you know, because, you know, my grandpa has passed away and my grandma's not in great health. So we've like discussed a lot. Okay. Like what are we going to do [00:22:00] when this happens? And we just had never had that discussion. And I just thought it was funny because I'm like, yeah, it's true.
People need to know how to respond, you know, like, and I, at that point I was like, I just, you know, need to cry. And. I just, you know, people try to be there for you and I'm like, I don't need people asking me how to be there for me, you know, just literally be you. If I need something, I'll probably tell you or, or don't ask me.
You're just going to have to assume and you're just going to have to do it. Be brave. It's not going to be weird. Just if you want to send me something, send it. If not, leave me alone. Those are the two options.
Sarah: It's interesting like how people show up like
I've been, you know, fairly maybe detached from it, you know, just not, I've just appreciated what people can do, but it's interesting.
It's like, Oh, that's, that's what you do. And that's what you do, you know?
Marissa: Oh, yeah. Like seeing the way people respond. I actually loved, you know, my baby cousin was obviously she lives with my mom, and she has been through a lot of things. Like [00:23:00] death and stuff in her life. And she's only seven. And, and I am sure my dad dying probably triggered her, she's probably not aware of it, but, you know, it died.
Her grandpa had died. Who was basically her dad. And you know, I was like crying on the couch and she was like, Are you crying? And I was like, yeah. And she was like, I gotta go. And I was like, bye. It was so funny. And then, you know, me and my mom were like on the couch and we were crying. And she walks over and she was like, are you guys crying?
And we were like, yeah. And she goes, I have to call Santa. And she goes, Santa, we have a crisis situation over here. I'm like, where's amazing. So it's so funny. And then not long after that, she went into the back room and she was watching TV and my, my roommate Patty, she goes in there and she was like, Skylar, can I hang out with you?
And she was like, this is the not sad room. And Patty was like, great, because I'm not sad. [00:24:00] And she was like, okay, but like, we're happy in here. So if you want to watch the show with me, and Patty was like, I'm happy. And I would love to watch a show with you. She's like, okay, you can come in.
Sarah: High five to her boundaries.
Marissa: This is the not sad room. I'm like, good for you.
Sarah: Yes. Nice.
Marissa: Yeah. But when you said, like, it's just interesting to see how people respond, like some adults, right? Like there were a lot of adults who are just like, Oh, I don't know how to deal with sadness. So I'm just not going to, you know, and then there were like all in and they know how to hold space.
And you know, you get a lot of messages. I will say like, one of the things that I really yearned for Was people who knew my dad because he was very introverted and he didn't have a lot of friends like as he got older, he definitely had friends, but like, you know, he was just, he spent a lot of his time sick in a bed.
The moment I realized this was my ex husband had texted me and he just said, Hey, I just heard [00:25:00] about, you know, your dad. And I just wanted to say, I'm sorry for your loss and like offer my condolences and like, He didn't say anything special. He didn't go out of his way, but it was just like, and he knew him, you know, I'm like, knew my dad.
So that means something. Whereas like a lot of people were reaching out and like, I loved it. That was so nice, but in a different way. You actually, and so on some level you feel this and maybe not a lot, but like, you know what this means, you know,
Sarah: I had a lot of that too. And not really the longing to be with people who knew her, but a lot of people reached out who did know her.
Well, actually I'll say, so we had the experience when she died, she was, she was, she was a church, she was a retired trauma nurse and She was taken to the, to the hospital and cared for in her trauma bay by her trauma doc and lots of and then was in her hospital. And so I just got tons of people who came by and told me that they knew her and they loved her and they respected her.
And people who didn't know her said, I didn't know her. I never [00:26:00] got the chance, you know, to work with her, but. I've heard so many great things about, you know, her reputation and, and that was real. I really, really appreciated that. And then I had lots of other people who had other types of relationships with her reach out.
And I knew like, there was a whole part of me that really appreciated that. And I knew that especially later on, I would appreciate it more, but there was a point where I felt really private and possessive. Like, not really, well, private, a little bit private, but also possessive. I saw this, like, she's mine.
Like, you'll, no one will ever grieve her the way that I will. And I didn't have that with her besties, the ones that I've been tight with, but like all the other people, like the second tier of intimacy or third tier of intimacy, you know, people that, that knew her well, but weren't, you know, the, you know, the top tier or whatever.
I just, I just felt this possessiveness, like, yeah. What you're experiencing is jack shit. And I appreciate it. And I, I know that and I'll appreciate it more later, but I didn't like it.
Marissa: I don't know [00:27:00] that I experienced the possessiveness. But again, like, you know, I feel like The majority, there were only top tier people.
Like it was like me, my mom, my brother and his best friends from like when he was an adult, you know? And to me it was like, he had, he had his core people, which was really, really great. And everyone else was really kind of there to support us. But I, I remember like this still makes me sad. Like I asked people to come to the funeral.
I'm like, please, like my dad didn't like have
lot of friends. Like I don't want empty pews. Like That was like my fear that no one would show up and no one would be there. And like, that was really hard for me. I'm like I want people to be there for him, you know? And they did, and they did. That was really nice.
Sarah: I'm so glad you said that because I also experienced that. I had this big fear that because we had waited so long, she was like out of sight, out of mind, and that she would have had a lot more people there if we had, and I'm sure that's factual also, that there would have been a [00:28:00] lot more people if we had done it.
You know, right away, but we didn't do it right away. We did it when we did it. But I really had to manage that, that fear of nobody's going to come to her party. And I guess this, this goes right back to our years in my original conversation about rejection sensitivity. And it's essentially the fear that nobody's going to come to the party.
And it's like, Like, this is the day. This is the day that, you know, if Ginny mattered, we show up to the funeral, like,
Marissa: yes. Yeah.
Sarah: And who, you know, how many bodies are there going to be? How many people are there going to be? And yeah, that was really stressful. I hadn't quite articulated that. So I'm glad that you,
Marissa: and it was really nice. Like the people that did show up, like I, I had a lot of men show up, you know, who were like, 50s, 60s, my dad's age and, you know, like my boss, my boss's boss, my coworker and just a lot of male coworkers or like people in that. And that for what it's worth was really comforting to me because I feel like a lot of them, [00:29:00] similar age have kids.
And I think they saw a lot of, you know, my dad in them. I don't know. Like that was really comforting to me. And like, even like my boss now, like he just announced that he's like, leaving his last day is like this Thursday. And I like lost it when he told me, cause number one, he like really was a great boss.
Like showed up for me. You know, in that time, this patient and all the things, but like, you know, he was like explaining like why he was leaving. And he's like, I just, I want to be closer to my daughter and I want to have a life. Like my dad died at this age and I'm only three years younger than that. And I'm just like, I'm like, I wish, you know, my dad had thoughts like that, you know, like, and who knows if he did or didn't, but like, I'm like, I would have, I would give anything for my, To have my dad back and for him to be like, I just want to spend more time with my daughter.
So like he was saying that I'm like, Oh God, I'm like, great. Now I'm crying about my dad and I'm crying about you leaving. Like, yeah, yeah. I'm just gonna keep crying.
Sarah: Was it your dad's [00:30:00] death that pushed him over the edge with that decision?
Marissa: I don't know, but I selfishly do like, think that like it made him think, you know, like seeing me grieve and me struggle and listening to my, you know, me read it.
And I, I think he had already was having thoughts and he was getting offers and he's like,
at the end of the day, he deserves to have a life and he's not young anymore. Like my dad died and he was 58. Like, There's no time to be like, oh, it'll get better soon. It's like, no, you either Make the choice or or you don't
Sarah: what a lovely legacy though for him to leave if
if he wasn't able to do that in his life Inspire other men.
It's so young.
Marissa: And you know, one thing I keep thinking to myself is you know, he had no legs And so I think about like emotionally, he also had no legs. Like he didn't have that stuff. Right. And I just think I'm like, you know, I feel like my dad can support me more from the other side than he was able to from this side.[00:31:00]
And that like, I always have this picture of he has legs now and he's almost like behind me, like at an angle, just like holding up kind of like this and he's like, you know, and I'm like, okay, so like there are certain things I think about that make me feel better. And that's like one of them. And I would say the other one is this idea that when people die, they just have a knowing.
And, you know, whether or not he, he knew that I loved him while he was here, he knows now and it's like a higher knowing and it's a kind knowing and it's a, they get kind of can see from a bigger picture. And it's not like this earthly realm where people are like, you didn't come see me. Right. It's just more like, yeah, I understand.
They feel love. And I just, I don't know, like, it gives me comfort that he has such a great understanding. Now,
Sarah: do you feel like, because that is the way you see him, that your relationship with him has changed?
Marissa: I think I'm getting there. Like, I feel like I have two separate relationships, right? Where it's like the one where [00:32:00] it's like, yeah, okay. My dad's got me and I know he gets it. He loves me. And I know he knows I love him. And there's still that other, that other part of me, that's like, I didn't go visit. And did he know I loved him and, you know, that he loves me, you know, like we, there was all, there was things that would happen, rejection sensitivity.
My last birthday, we were all supposed to go out to dinner and he bailed at the last minute. I remember thinking, does my dad love me? You know, why doesn't he want to go out to dinner with me? And then, and then he dies and I'm like, Oh, that was literally his last chance to ever go to dinner with me.
And he chose not to, you know? So I think like, I just have, I have like this higher version over here where I'm like, Oh yeah, I know it's all love and this one's over here. It's like, Hey, does my dad love me. You know? .
Sarah: ,
it's a
lot of reality to hold, isn't it? Or a lot of perspectives to hold at once.
Marissa: Yeah. It's such a dichotomy. The duality life for whatever it is. I'm like, and both can exist at the same time and it's like that's, they're both normal [00:33:00] and it's totally fine. And it's so funny 'cause people are like, well, you know, he loved you. Right? I'm like, I know, right?
Sarah: Yes. One aspect of me knows that.
Marissa: Yes. And, and also I don't feel it. Like, I think there's a difference between knowing and feeling, at least in this scenario.
Sarah: I've been really drawn to I'm not, I'm not a religious person. I'm really spiritual. I have pretty deep beliefs and I've been really, really drawn to people who've had near death experiences. It's like, and then the other day I had this weird, I had this thing where I was tired of it. Like I was tired of, grief, and I was going for a run.
And so, so it's like one part of me is like, oh, I'm tired of this. And then the other part of me is like, okay, well, let's find something else to listen to or focus on during your run. And then I'm like, what else is there? It's really the only thing I care about is death or dying or near death experiences or her death or whatever, how I'm feeling.
And then I, I downloaded this book about this book called the afterlife of Billy [00:34:00] Fingers, which is, you know, it's a whole book basically dictated by somebody's brother after he died. And it's great. And I kind of can't get enough of that stuff. But it's funny. I'm really, really drawn to that.
Marissa: I feel like I've always been drawn to that stuff.
So I kind of always have like, you know, dove into it. And what do people see and what do they feel? And I will say from a religious perspective. Like, I'm glad I'm not as in deep with the church as I'm grieving this, because I was, yeah, I was talking to like, you know, some old college teammates a couple weekends ago.
I think if I were in the church right now, I would have a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of fear. That my dad is in hell. Oh, damn nation. And, you know, did he know God, you know, and now it's like knowing what I know, I just feel like, [00:35:00] yeah, it can't be created or destroyed. And you just move from this plane to another plane.
I have a lot of peace with like, knowing that I do believe in God, but I just believe in him differently now. And I just so much more peace now where I'm not like living in fear and, and all of this stuff. And yeah, I'm like, I'm just thinking, Oh God, like if this were me four years ago, I'd be like, is my dad in hell?
Or did he go to heaven? Or did he, you know, cause you don't actually know, you don't know. And my brain goes to the worst.
Sarah: Wow. I had never even thought of that. I mean, I've certainly considered, you know, hell in the afterlife, you know, plenty in my life, but I have never really thought about what it must be like for people who really, really believe that who really believe that their beloveds aren't You know, aren't with God.
I mean, because part of what's keeping me comfort, giving me comfort is, you know, watching near death experience after near death experience, which is essentially me just watching [00:36:00] people tell stories of heaven. I mean, however you want to tell the story, like comforting myself with the fact that, or the idea that she's in a better place.
Yeah. And that's not a phrase I'm ever going to use with myself or anybody else, but that's pretty much what I'm doing. And if somebody, if somebody can't do that, I just had never even thought about how painful and terrifying that must be and the idea that forever that you're never ever going to be reunited because they're floating and oh my god.
Yeah, I
Marissa: have like a theories
like I truly believe not that this is a religious conversation but like, have you ever read the four agreements full tech wisdom? And he talks a lot about how like earth is hell, right. And we can create heaven on earth by doing the work in our minds and all of that.
And. And then I've read a couple of Rob Bell's books, you know who Rob Bell is?
Sarah: I
do, but I don't know his work,
Marissa: so he's like a blasphemous, right? In the Christian world, because he says, everybody goes to heaven. He says, God [00:37:00] is love. Everyone goes to heaven. And then he writes a book called the Bible.
It's a book about the Bible, but he goes through Certain things that happened in the cultural context and what it actually means and why it doesn't mean what we think it means anyways, but yeah one his original book is about how everyone goes to heaven because god is love And I I just feel like if god lives inside all of us Then when we see the truth, we recognize it as truth and I read that book I'm, like yeah, and i'm like if my human parents on a human plane can love me You Through all the things that I did, child, teen, two divorces, all of the things, then you're telling me God can't love us when we cross over?
That there's some people who's just like, Oh man, you didn't choose me, you're out. Yeah. I'm like, no, I think earth is hell. And we can have heaven here. We, or we don't have to, or we have it later. Right. But I think we always have the option to have [00:38:00] heaven with us.
Sarah: I think so too. Yeah. I don't, I don't believe any of that.
One of, one of the things I did notice is one of the things I've noticed that's, that's interesting about all the near death experiences. First of all, they all say the same thing, which I'm interesting.
But I listened to one, but you can see how their, their human beliefs overlay their experience like they explained the experience in different ways. And so that's interesting to me that like, I don't know, essentially the facts of the experience are the same from person to person, but some of them
interpret some of those things differently than other people do. And so it's interesting to see how much of, you know, their human perspective is, is over coupled with it. And I listened to one where it was, you know, everything was beautiful. I loved everything that she said. And, and then she was talking about hell and like the only people that go to hell are the ones that don't choose God.
And I just like, I can't understand, like, first of all, I don't believe that, but second of all, I cannot, [00:39:00] I cannot fathom how you could have had that experience. And Yeah,
Marissa: I don't know. I, so one of my, one of my friends told me he had a near death experience once he was in the military and he I don't know, some kind of bomb or something went off like near his tank.
It's like knocked unconscious or whatever. And he was telling me, like, he remembers almost like traveling through space. At like lightning speed and he just knew everything, like any question he wanted to know, he knew the answer. But it was like traveling through time and space and it was dark. And then he's, and I remember him telling me something about how there was this being God in front of him and it was all love and, you could just knew like, this is good.
He goes, but there was also this. Being behind me that also loved me. He goes, but loved me in a different way, in like a possessive way, in a, I want you to be mine. But it was still this like [00:40:00] love, right? But it was not love. And I, I always, I don't know what that means or anything like that, but I did find it interesting and I'm like, you know what
I think trying to figure out how to explain this, like, you know, how we can choose heaven or hell on earth right now, right. By doing the work in our minds. It's like, You have like love and then you have like the false pictures of the things that you think are love. And it's almost like, I felt like he was describing like, okay, there's this true love.
It's like, you get past the lies and the walls and whatever, and you have this thing here. And then, but you also have this other thing that's still kind of like, I don't know, I don't know anything about it. And he told that story, but I was like, that's wild. Like, I don't know what that is. I'm like, and that's an interesting thought.
And I'm like, well, you never did the work. while, you were here as a person to like evolve and become aware and understand and be in touch with your intuition and your consciousness. Like, do you die and think that this one back here is love because you never experienced this love? Like, I don't know. I don't know.
I just find it awesome. I don't [00:41:00] know.
Sarah: I mean, yeah, who knows? Maybe it's all made up. Maybe it's all just like, Yeah.
Marissa: Yeah. I find myself like very wanting to find psychic mediums that I can talk to though.
Sarah: I think that might be really common among us. Like I've started to hear other people say that and that, that has a little bit been interesting to me, but not.
Not as much. So tell me, yeah, tell me,
Marissa: There's two people. There's Matt Frazier that I would definitely want to talk to you or oh my gosh, the Bilesky, I think it's Amy Bilesky and they're both really expensive. And I'm like, I just, I just want to know, you know, and I think the thing is, is the thing inside me is, does my dad love me? Does he have a message for me? What does he want to say to me? But yeah, I just find myself being like, Oh, if I had the money, I would absolutely like pay for a private reading with one of those people and just be like, tell me everything.
But I would want it to be like mind blowing, right?
Sarah: Well, I bet there's a way [00:42:00] for And to visit maybe through somebody else or. , but there's a way for you to have that experience. Have you any dreams or anything? Have you seen him at all?
I
Marissa: feel like no if I had I feel like I may have had one dream I don't remember. I remember feeling like I'm not getting any signs or anything, you know
My dad wasn't a super like showy or like reach out person while he was here, maybe he's not changing now that he's gone Yeah, you know, yeah It was why is gonna come flicker my lights when like, he's like, I'm chillin. I'm vibin. I don't know.
Sarah: I was mad at my mom today for not talking to me and I see her all the times like, like, you know, the way that I think that we communicated is through butterflies. It's how we always did and I saw one today and I always feel like it's her and they always show up when I'm I don't know. It's confirmation of some thought or, you know, they just show up right on time and Yeah.
And that does, that does feel really good. But I still, so, but, and I was mad that she's not being more [00:43:00] specific or more verbal or more , you know, showing up some other way.
Marissa: Just tell me what you want me to know.
Sarah: Also, like, why do other people get, like why did Billy Fingers sister get. A whole book, you know, like, why does that happen for some people and it doesn't happen for other people?
Marissa: I've had thoughts like, well, not really like that, but like my bosses were having a conversation today and one of them was talking about, you know, his mom that lived like, You know, she was like older in her eighties or something like that. My other boss's mom is still alive. And I'm just thinking, why do you still have your parents?
Why did mine have to die at 58? Well, you're still sitting pretty in their eighties and happy and like, what? I think a lot about how much work I do day in and day out to take care of my body look my best, feel my best, and like do the work. And I'm like, I just wanted my [00:44:00] dad to want more for himself. And I don't understand why he could never choose it.
Like I have empathy for him. I know he did his best, but I still don't understand it. Unlike like when we went to clean out like his room and stuff, there was chocolate bars everywhere. I mean, it was a type two diabetic. And like one side of me is like, you know, he did his best and that chocolate was probably the little bit of joy that he had, you know?
Sarah: Yeah
Marissa: and the other side of me is, Is that why you're gone, you know, and it's like, I just, you know, he never took more than three steps in his prosthetics, which makes me so incredibly sad because he had them for like a year. And I don't know, right. It's like, it's like, he just couldn't find the motivation to get up and try or make changes.
But I think I feel he really wanted to, and he still couldn't. So that's really hard. I feel like to navigate. Cause I'm like, why didn't you care if, if not for you, then for like the people who love you,
Sarah: is that what you think it is that you didn't [00:45:00] care enough?
Marissa: Like rationally? No, obviously. But like, there's part of me that's like, if you cared just enough, you know, it's like, And I guess I know for me, like the amount of effort that I put in that I'm like, I know it's possible. It's hard. And I also know he did not have the same tools as me, which I'm mad about that too.
That's something I've kind of talked to like peer coach about. I was like, I'm thinking, why me? Why do I get access to these tools that help me grow and make a difference in my life? And yet not, not for him. You know, like for whatever it's worth or for whatever reason, he never, either never got into it or was never exposed to it.
Like why a full life of like struggling to survive and, and struggling with addiction and getting sick and being sick for a long time. Like I don't, there's just so many things that I just don't understand.
Sarah: Yeah. That makes sense. Do you feel like your drive to care for your [00:46:00] body is, you know, in reaction to the way that he lived?
Marissa: I do think it has a lot to do with it. I think it has a lot to do with both of my parents and just seeing a lot of my family and the diabetes and they're not feeling great. And, you know, having family who smoked or were drug addicts. I don't like to call people addicts that struggled with addiction. Yeah, I think just being exposed to all the things that I was exposed to was really like I just want to take care of myself because I want to be here as long as possible and I want to make as much impact as I can while I'm here.
Sarah: Do you have survivor's guilt?
Marissa: I don't think so. I don't know.
I don't think so. I think it's more like, I just know that there's nothing I could have done. I just wish I had learned to accept him sooner so that I could have enjoyed more time with him. Like, I think I was so worried about being rejected by him that I didn't know how to ask him to hang out or to spend time with him because I thought, well, what if he doesn't want, you know, to see me or I'm just busy or like whatever it may be.
Sarah: Yeah. [00:47:00] Boy, that runs deep, doesn't it?
Marissa: Yeah, it's crazy. You don't know. And then they're gone. And then you're like, Oh fuck.
Sarah: Yeah.
Marissa: You're out of time. That's it.. And I will say, just kind of like finish my thoughts. I just don't think I'll ever forget like the moment learning that he had died. You know what I mean?
It's like, I had an amazing day planned. I was supposed to go work out in the morning. I was shopping and hang out by the pool. And then I had like a really nice, like gown formal dinner that I was going to wear like day two that night. And I was doing the dishes. And my mom called and I answered on my watch and she was like, where are you?
And I, I thought she was asking me where I was because I was supposed to bring my dog over for her to watch. And I was like, what do you mean? Where am I? Like, I'm trying to do the dish. You know what I mean? And she just kept saying, where are you? Where are you?
And I'm
like, hold on. So I finally get to my phone and I'm like, what?[00:48:00]
Like, what, why are you asking me where I'm at? You know, and so it's kind of a dick, but she was just like, well, you're something about your dad. They're rushing to the hospital. They don't think he's going to make it. And I just remember like,
you know,
try not to freak out because my mom's on the phone, but also like, kind of like falling to my knees for a second.
Like, Oh my God.
Sarah: What time of day?
Marissa: It was like 8 a. m.
And ironically, the dress that I was supposed to wear to that event that night is what I ended up wearing to his funeral. Yeah. So it kind of felt like, wow, I was never going to go to the event.
It was a perfect funeral dress with like black and lace and a high neck. Like it was very, very beautiful and like exactly what I would want to wear. That's what I'm saying. I'm like, I feel like the universe just knew,
you know,
and I did it. And I know somewhat did, but I didn't.
I
Sarah: know.
Yeah. Yeah. I felt like that too.
Marissa: I'm
like,
Oh, yeah, it'd be some better sign. So I would have gone to visit him the week before, you know, can take it back.
Sarah: Maybe you weren't supposed to. I mean, it sounds like you [00:49:00] got pretty clear communication and you followed it.
Marissa: I did text him that day like when I was having the conversation at the conference.
I did text him and say, Hey, I'm at a conference and I thought of you and I just wanted to let you know that I love you. And that, that was really heartbreaking to me though because when we found his phone it was on, it was still marked as unread. And I'm like, I sent that a week ago and I'm like, and I don't think he ever read it.
And like, I think about that a lot. I'm like, did he, did he get the message? Did he see it? Did he mark it as unread to reply later? Like, you know, so that's one thing I would love to have answered. Like, did he or did he not receive my message?
Sarah: Oh, you have a lot of unknowns around that.
Marissa: Yeah. And I don't love it. Maybe a medium can answer. Yeah. Maybe not. Maybe I just have to be okay with it. Who knows?
Sarah: If you want an answer, ask for a fucking answer.
I don't know. I feel like I went through a, another, another thing where I was just trying, basically [00:50:00] trying not to ask the question, trying not to ask the question, trying to be okay with not knowing.
And then finally one day I was like, fuck this. I want to know. And I just sent a prayer out like, please answer these questions for me gently.
And then within 24 hours it was answered. So.
Marissa: I mean, maybe I'll ask it tonight. I'll just be like, Hey. Maybe you can help a girl out.
Sarah: Yeah, how about this one?
Marissa: Yeah. This is the one I really need to answer. Did he or did he not know that I loved him? Yeah. That's the one. All I want is I, cause the thing is, I know I feel like I could manage, like my dad did love me. I know he did in his own way, but I'm like, but did he know I loved him? Like that is really important to me.
Sarah: Yeah.
Marissa: What a time.
Sarah: What a time. Well, I'm really sorry about your dad.
Marissa: Sorry about your mom.
Sarah: Yeah. Thanks.
Marissa: Just be like that sometimes, you know?
Sarah: Pretty weird. Not what I thought was gonna happen for sure.
Marissa: Oh yeah. Not prepared at all. But now we're winging it. [00:51:00] I'm figuring out every day I am like, okay,
Sarah: totally winging it.
Marissa: Fucking, I'm like, all right,
what else you this out?
.
Sarah: Then we will, we'll figure it out. And some, you know, sometime we'll be like those people close to me who like. I don't know what it is if you know that wound is closed over because they because these two for sure didn't they didn't sidestep it and so that I don't know that's a piece of hope for us that that will be whole and reshaped and changed and functional
and.
Marissa: Praying for that, for sure.
Sarah: Yeah, sometime.
Thanks for listening to About Death, the podcast about living life on your own terms. Would you help me get our guest stories into the hands of people who need to hear them? One thing you can do is think about who you know who would love this episode. Send it to them or leave a rating and review, especially if it's a good one.
And if you want community and coaching, Go to [00:52:00] CosmicStew. com to get started. See you next time.
ABOUT MARISSA:
Hi there. My name is Marissa, and I am a happy go lucky ray of freaking sunshine! I am also the Host of Sun Happens Podcast a Certified Life Coach with the Life Coach School An influencer with a passion for encouraging others through social media sprinkled with dark humor and bad dance moves. Before this though, I was a 29 year old girl, going through her second divorce all before the age of 30. Ouch. That hurt. A little about me: I was born and raised in Naples, Florida. I’ve been through some things. Hard things even... and I’ve made it my mission to heal and help others heal. Here's what I have learned: Shit happens, but you know what? Sun happens too. And sometimes you really do have to create your own sunshine Instagram: TheMarissaBaker TikTok: TheMarissaBaker Promotions: Sun Happens Podcast on Spotify and Itunes Co-Authoring a book - You can Overcome Anything - With love Volume 7 - publishing summer of 2022 - chapter on divorce and how I took one year to heal.
Timestamps And Topics
00:00 Welcome to About Death: Living Life on Your Own Terms
00:21 Marissa Baker: A Journey Through Grief and Transformation
01:50 The Heartbreaking Reality of Losing a Parent
05:11 Navigating the Complex Emotions of Grief
07:45 The Surprising Aspects of Grieving and Healing
09:40 The Financial and Emotional Toll of Funeral Planning
12:07 Finding Support and Understanding in Grief
19:34 The Power of Community and Personal Growth in Times of Loss
26:24 Navigating Grief and Possessiveness
27:22 The Fear of Empty Pews: Facing Loss Together
28:37 Finding Comfort in Shared Grief
29:09 Reflecting on Parental Legacy and Wishes Unfulfilled
33:17 Exploring the Afterlife and Seeking Answers
41:08 Seeking Signs and Messages from Beyond
42:08 The Struggle with Acceptance and Unanswered Questions
45:57 Confronting the Reality of Loss and Moving Forward
50:04 Embracing Uncertainty and Finding Peace
51:36 Closing Thoughts
If you liked this conversation, you’ll love Cosmic Stew. Head over to sarahyost.com to start living your life your way, with way less anxiety, way less effort.