EPISODE 13: Denita Bremer
In 2000, Denita lost her mother, best friend, and her grandfather within a few months. She and Sarah discuss the long-lasting impact of these losses and how grief changes over time. She also touches on her complicated relationship with her mother, her turbulent childhood with parents involved in substance abuse, and her journey of self-care post-tragedy.
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Sarah:
Hi friends, this is your host, master coach and teacher Sarah Yost. You are listening to the About Death podcast, the show about living life on your own terms. Stick around if you want way more of what you want with way less anxiety.
Today's conversation is with another coach named Danita Brimmer. And the perspective that she brings is that of a grounded, mature, mature, stable, woman who at the beginning of her adulthood lost several people significant to her, particularly her mother. And to hear her from such a distance really talk about the experience of being raised in the family she was raised in and how that contributed to her experience of grieving her and some of what happened to her other family and how a loss like this, an accident and how it affects everybody involved.
I accidentally cut off the very beginning of our conversation and what you missed was Danita introducing herself as Danita Brimmer, a coach from the Denver area and letting us know that she is going to be focusing on her death story today rather than some of the things that she usually talks about related to her coaching practice.
Enjoy.
Denita:In the year 2000, I had, up until that point, I was turning 20 that year, and I'd never lost anybody close to me. I'd never experienced anything like that. Any kind of death at all. I had all four grandparents intact, that kind of a thing. And my, one of my best friends from school, which I grew up in this tiny little town.
So we were all kind of close, you know, she, we had finished our freshman year of college. We were at different places and she died in a tragic, tragic accident. She was at Yellowstone and fell into a hot spring. And I was so shocked and so. I don't know. Like, I couldn't even wrap my mind around it, that my friends who were going home for the funeral, I was like, no, I can't go.
So I didn't even go to her funeral. And then a month later, my mom died after being in a car accident, which now I'm like double whammy. And then a month after that, my grandfather died and he had been in failing health. So it was actually quite a peaceful. Um, so that is. And I've had other losses since then, but those, that is kind of what pushed me into the deep end of death and loss and grief and all of that.
So, and now here we are 24 years later and some days are still as hard as those early days. So really, I mean, That's kind of terrible news. So tell me what you mean by that. Yes. I have moments. I guess I shouldn't say some days. It doesn't ever last a whole day, but I have moments where I'll be in conversation with someone or I'll just be thinking.
Usually it's around my mom and grief, like a wave will wash over me and I will cry again and I'll get mad again and I'll be like, what, why? And I'll just go through the whole thing again. And then it passes much more quickly, but there are short, moments where it's like almost as painful as those first weeks after a loss.
So in a way, I'm like, it never really totally goes away. I'm, I think we learn to include that loss into our lives. And we find ways to, to move on and we all have our coping mechanisms and we all have unanswered questions that we just learned to live with. Um, but that has been probably the most surprising thing to me about grief and loss is that I kind of thought it would be this intense thing at first and then slowly I would get over it.
And for the most part, that's true. But then I have these moments. Where it just comes out of nowhere. And I'm like, Oh, what is happening? Why? You know, and, and sometimes I know why sometimes I understand the trigger behind it. And sometimes it's just a day that I'm very tender. So that's, yeah, that's part of my experience.
Sarah:
And so when you have that emotional thing come over you, you're saying that you also get all of the thinking, all of the Um, looking for blame and how did this happen and try and like, you have the whole making sense of it thing also.
Denita:To a lesser extent, I think, um, but for me, because I have three kids who my oldest is 20, my youngest is 15 and they've never known a grandmother because my husband's mother died when my youngest was about 10 months old.
So my oldest kind of knew her a little, but doesn't really remember phone conversations and things with grandma. So for me, it's more like the stage of life I'm in now, when that like loss hits me, I have the questions about like, you know, parenting and in grandmotherhood and just like, why did it have to happen this way?
Kind of thing. I mean, I don't ask that too often, but it's. I think that's just the natural tendency to be like, why am I feeling like this?
Sarah:Yeah. It's, it's a way of making sense and making order of it. Yeah. What was your relationship like with your mom?
I think overall I would say I had a good relationship with my mom. I had a fairly terrible childhood. I'm the product of two teenagers. So my mom was 17, barely, when she had me. My dad was 20. They stayed together for a little over 20 years. They never got married, but like finances were always a thing to fight about.
They were alcoholics and drug addicts. So. My growing up years, I didn't know any different, obviously, but it was always very, um, chaotic and I never knew what to expect kind of thing. So, I mean, I know my mom loved me without a doubt, under percent. But she was sort of really my whole life was in the throes of her own mental issues, you know, and was never diagnosed with anything.
But me looking back, I'm pretty sure she would have been diagnosed with major depressive disorder. It was just, always sad, always crying, always withdrawing. So it's like, I loved her and, and I knew she loved me. And she genuinely, I genuinely believe she always did the best she could, but it was also still very lacking.
Right. So I went to college in the fall of 1998. So this is almost two full years later. Um, and like, I would call my mom every week or two. So we had an ongoing relationship. I would go home every once in a while as a college student working part time. I made more money than my parents did. Wow. So like they rarely came out and visited me.
I was, I was in Seattle in school. My hometown was five hours away. So if I wanted to see them, I would go home and visit. And so it's not that my relationship was bad in any way, but it also was just always tenuous, right? Um, and when she died, here's the kind of complicating factor. When she died, her and my dad were going through what would have been a divorce, had they been married.
I have a little sister who was nine years old at the time, and my mom was really trying hard to do right by my little sister. So my mom was a daddy's girl. She did not want to take. My sister's father, my father as well away from her, but she hated my dad and their relationship was so volatile that she, the last time I talked to her, she was complaining and she was like, I just don't know what to do.
Some days I just want to take your sister and leave and go somewhere where he doesn't know where we are because he could be very violent and mean. And she's like, but I don't want to take. Her dad away from her, right? Like that's an important relationship. And I just, I didn't know what to tell my mom. I was like, I don't know, mom.
And I happen to be a person of faith, which came to me through my grandparents on my dad's side. So my mom was never really a part of that part of my life. She supported me and approved of it. She was just like, you know, whatever you want. But I never, ever, ever talked to her about my belief in God or religion or anything like that.
And in that moment, I just said, I don't know, mom, I don't know what the right thing is, but. I feel like whatever is going to happen, God will make sure the right thing happens. And the next, like about 10 days later, I had a call from the hospital saying my mom had been in an accident and I needed to come and be there because she wasn't married.
I was the executor of her estate. And so I was the one to make the decisions about keeping her on life support or not. So good relationship. Yeah. I don't know if that's exactly the right. Yeah, but it, it wasn't strained our relationship together. Just the whole situation was strained. Right. Yeah. And so what was that?
Sarah:
So what happened to your sister?
Denita:My sister, for the first couple of years, she lived with my dad. They figured things out. My dad, he is not in a position to parent anyone by himself. Think of like a 15 year old boy in a man's body who, you know, works and provides, but really has never cooked for himself, has never written a check, like any of those sort of adult life things, he had no idea.
And so him raising my sister, and I put that in quotes, was, here's a hundred dollars. What do you need? Like school supplies, that kind of thing. And so it was pretty quick that she was like, Hmm, I want to go live with my aunt and uncle because they had kids her age. They know how to raise a child. They, you know, and so he kind of let her do that.
Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a sad story. She did end up eventually in foster care. Um, and then my husband and I took her in and. She had not gotten the support she needed. She'd not been in therapy. She'd not none of that. And so she was a crazy volatile child teenager at this point. And she opted to go back into foster care after we took her in because it was too much for her to handle.
I think to be like a loving, stable home after not experiencing that for years and years. So she, my dad and my sister were both in the car with my mom. And. My mom wasn't wearing a seatbelt and my dad lost control. I think my parents got into an argument in the car and my mom grabbed the wheel. Yeah. He lost control and she vomited and didn't get like her airways were blocked.
And so they're in the middle of nowhere, tiny little town. It took the ambulance seven minutes to get to her. So she basically died because her brain didn't get oxygen that she needed. So I'm sure that was so traumatic for my little sister to be there for her to crawl out of the car with. basically no injuries.
Yeah. And for my mom to actually die from, from that, I can't even imagine like, if I could go back and do it, I would be like immediate therapy. But at the time I was so young and I was overwhelmed. So I didn't really know how to navigate all of that for myself and for other people. Sure. I have so much compassion now for.
Sarah:
For people who are in, um, I just never really appreciated how, just how fucking awful that must be to be in an accident with a car accident with somebody who dies and so common and, you know, watching my mom have a fairly violent accident and being with her through that without Without my own trauma of being in a car accident without the, without all of that disorientation and just all the extra things.
I have so much compassion for that experience now that I never had before.
Denita:Yeah, that's, that's very true. Lots of compassion. Yeah.
Sarah:So did your dad have any, I don't know, did he share any sort of traumatic response to that or did he just act like nothing had happened?
Denita:No, he. He blamed himself, devolved into a deep depression. That's like basically what happened. And because it was ruled an accident, Because there wasn't an actual, like there wasn't another car involved, the road wasn't wet.
Like there were no mitigating circumstances. It was just an accident. They didn't press charges on him. Like there was, it was a no fault accident, right? But he felt, cause he was driving, that he was responsible. And so he was punishing himself. Sure. This is, this is my opinion. Like this is. It was so clear to me at the time, and he actually, um, like I said, my parents were alcoholics, drug addicts, always involved in drug stuff to some extent.
And he ended up renting a property that he owned to some people. I don't even know who these people are. And they started a meth lab, of course. And when the police found this and busted it all open, he's the owner of the property. So they interviewed him and he refused to cooperate. So he, at that point, this is a few years later, was prosecuted to the extent of the law and received four years in prison.
Oh, wow. Not because he did anything, but because he refused to cooperate. And so he was kind of by default, you know, implicated. Um, and I think he wanted to go to prison because of my mom's death. Right. I think he was searching for a way to kind of punish himself. Sure. Yeah. So he never had words like, Yeah.
I feel so bad about this or, you know, he's a typical blue collar kind of guy doesn't talk about his feelings, but really wore his feelings on his sleeve. Like everybody could tell, um, and everyone was worried about him. And everyone's like, Oh, what's going to happen here? That was the point that my sister actually went to go live with my aunt and uncle because my dad went to prison.
And it was this random, crazy situation, right? I mean, obviously my parents didn't keep the best company, but also like he had a lot of agency in that that could have determined something else. So that's how I think of it.
Sarah:I wonder if that did it for him. I wonder if he, I don't know, felt like he got to pay his dues with his prison stint.
Considering he's back in prison now after several years not being in prison, I don't think it did it. But right before he got out of prison, he had an accident where he fell and shattered his elbow. And so he wasn't able to work once he came out of prison. And I don't really know. I can only assume. I've had very limited contact with him.
Um, So I've heard little things here and there. I've had a few conversations over the years with him, but, um, I just found out a few months ago that he's back in prison for, um, for what was it? selling guns, illegal gun sales and that kind of thing. So, I mean, I think really he just wants his life to be over kind of thing.
Uh, if I were to guess, I don't really know, but he, he doesn't do a good job of taking care of himself. And to be honest, prison is probably one of the best places for him. Or somebody else can take care of him, like his bodily life functions, food, water, and all that. And so I don't know that he'll ever get over it.
Sarah:
So how did you know how to take care of yourself? Did your mom take good care of you or did you have to learn physically?
Denita:Physically, my mom took good care of us. Emotionally, no. But Yeah. Are you asking like during the grief period or just in general? How about during the grief period? What was that like?
Yes. So this is one of the most interesting things is I really didn't know how to take care of myself, so to speak. I mean, I definitely put one foot in front of the other and I kind of kept going with my life. I was in this. Amazingly beautiful moment where, you know, I had like a part time job being at college, but the semester we were between semesters and I had about a month and that's when this happened.
And so I, it was just so perfect. And cause I had to go through all my mom's stuff and close her bank accounts and like all that kind of stuff as like a 20 year old. Yes. Did that in that month. Oh my gosh. I still haven't done that to where my mom were at like almost a year. Yeah. So I mean, I was like, this is the time I have, I don't know when I'm going to be back.
I don't know. Right. So I just did it. And I remember even looking back, it was like, I was a zombie through that. I just went through the motions. I don't remember much of it. But once I got home, like back to where I lived. Going to school. I was living with my boyfriend at the time. He would later become my husband and he took care of me very well.
So like he fed me. I, I was going through the motions of life, but I was sort of like, so disconnected. Yeah. And I almost feel like because there was nobody telling me, this is what it should look like. And this is how long it should last. I just rode the waves of grief and sadness. And when there were moments of joy, that was there too.
And there was no timeline. There was no expectation. It was so wide open that that's the only thing I could do. Yeah. And I think it was the healthiest thing. So I never, I didn't have anybody saying, Oh, you shouldn't be crying so much anymore. Or you know what I mean? Like all those things that well meaning people say, but I was just like, this is just how I feel.
So I would just break down in public or I would just try eating dinner or whatever, wherever I was. And I do remember. During that first year feeling like, oh, how many tears am I going to cry? And I think at some point somebody said, give it at least a year, at least. And about that year mark, I remember being frustrated that I couldn't think about my mom without just crying and crying.
And seeing the pictures in my head of her in the hospital room, her head was very swollen so she didn't look like herself. Yeah. And I was like, am I ever going to remember my mom? Just my mom. Right. and I think I intuitively knew like yes I would eventually, but I just, I just rode those emotional waves like, like a boat on the water.
I didn't try to control it at all. I didn't, I just couldn't. It was beyond me. Right. So, like I, you know, Took showers. I went to work. I went to school. Honestly, I can't tell you a single class I took that year, but I went through the motions of being a student, going to work, doing life. And I think in some ways, because all of this happened away from where I was at school, it was like the environment was supportive to me.
It was like, okay, this is a normal place. This is normal. This is where I go to work and, and be myself. But I, I look back now and I'm like, Oh my gosh, that was such a gift. Nobody told me how to grieve. Nobody told me I was doing it wrong. Nobody told me anything. And at one point, so she passed away in September.
I think it was Christmas. My boyfriend gave me. He had taken, he, I don't even remember. He'd gone through my stuff, I guess, and taken some pictures of my mom and had them blown up to eight by 10. They were little teeny pictures, and he had them blown up to eight by 10 and framed them and gave them to me for a gift.
And I opened the gift and I just, Bursts into tears. And he was like, did I do something wrong? And I was like, no, this is so amazing. But like, it's my mom. Right. And so I can't not cry. And, and so he was very like, Oh, did I cross the line? And I was like, no, it's, these are good tears, right? These are happy tears, but it took a while before.
And I remember the first time when I was like, Oh, I thought of my mom and I didn't cry. And that's when I knew. Okay. I've turned a corner and this is going to be okay. Like I'm going to be okay. And someday I'll look back with fondness and you know, all of that. Cause it's just this tunnel that you have to go through.
Yeah. Yeah. So as far as how did I take care of myself or know how I think I just went through the motions. Yeah. I think I got lucky with people around me that were tender enough, but firm enough. Right. I don't know that they knew how, but. My husband was amazing. I mean, he was this like 20 year old kid who I'm sure didn't know what to do, but he was riding that wave too.
Right. And just taking it day by day, moment by moment. I would imagine that at your age, you didn't have a, you know, your peers weren't dealing with parent loss. And so you didn't have a picture of maybe how it should be quote unquote, or, you know, that comparison. For sure. I had, I had nothing. Like I said, a month before that, one of my friends died.
And it like, it like froze me. I was like, I can't, I can't go home and go to that funeral, huh? And I think to some extent, my mom, me being the executor of her estate, I like, I had to kind of keep moving a little bit. I had to make decisions about things. She really had very little, so there wasn't a lot to make decisions around, but it was like, well, We have, we're having a funeral, right?
Like, and I actually didn't plan the funeral. I barely, barely remember it, but a lot of people came. So when you live in a small town and something tragic like that happens, they rally around. Um, so. And I think it was good. I think for some people being kind of forced or feel like I have to just keep going would have been a bad thing, but for me, it was like, okay, we just do the next thing.
Okay, what's next? What's next? And it, I don't know, I, in some ways it gave me a little bit of purpose. Yeah. Right. Cause my, my employer, I mean, I worked for this daycare and so it wasn't like a career job or anything, but she was super understanding. She was like, take as much time as you need, do what you got to do.
We'll see you later. And so I had this space where I didn't have to go to work. School wasn't starting yet. Um, what else am I going to do? Right. I mean, I think in some ways I can see my own patterns and like I could have devolved into a depression if I didn't have something to do. Right. And I think I paced myself like it was overwhelming and I would just say, all right, what, what one thing are we doing today?
Right. And so it's not like I tried to. rush and hurry. I was just like, we're just going to do what we're going to do.
Sarah:And did that, is that kind of how you handle tough times now? Did that create a template for your adult life?
Denita: That's a really good question. Um, yeah, I think so. I haven't, Had too many tough times since then. That was definitely the hardest. Um, but I mean, I have teenagers, so it can feel hard at times. Right, right.
Yeah. I have teenagers too. And I think that's pretty true. I think there's a part of me that wants to plan and know how everything is going to work out. And, but ultimately I think I just go one day at a time. And are you into human design at all? Uh, limited. Yes. So, I've been learning about my human design and my, um, conscious sun is going to the beat of my own drum, whatever, whatever it is, but that's like the theme of that. And I've been really pondering a lot about that. And when I first learned about it, I thought that meant kind of like rock star, like you're wild or something like that of some sort. Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, that's not me.
Yeah. What? And since I've been pondering this for several weeks, really, I realized that. My tempo is actually very slow, slower than the rest of society, right? And I think that serves me very well when tough times come, I can, I naturally kind of slow down and, okay, we're just going to take this one step at a time, especially since learning lots of self help stuff.
And we're very similar in like the emotion world. Yeah. Yeah. Since learning those things, at least on a logical level, whatever I experience, I feel like I can give myself a lot of space and a lot of time, and I am, I'm just like it. There's no point in rushing through. It's just gonna backfire. So I, I have a very slow pace.
Yeah. I think in general, but especially when there are tough things happening. Yeah. I think, and I'm okay with that. Uh huh. And I, I, I do see a lot of my clients or just the world in general, it's a very chaotic, hectic pace. Uh huh. And I'm, I'm just like, push all of that away. Mm hmm. And, and I also live with so much privilege, right, that I have a husband who works and like I don't have to work.
So I have a lot of built in space and time and like I, I just built into my life as like a slower pace. Mm hmm. But I'm also just, I think that's just who I am because like when my kids were little, I was not the kind of mom that would put them in a million different things. I'd be like one thing per kid.
Mm hmm. Mm hmm. That's our, that's always been ours too. You can do one thing at a time. Yeah. Right. So I think it's a little bit of everything, but that's just kind of who I am. That's what came up when my mom died that I had this like month to just take my time, do it at my pace. Um, and I really do see that as such a blessing because had it happened at basically any other time in my life, it would have been a lot more complicated.
Sarah:
Um, do you ever think that that was a gift that she gave you from some, some realm or some, yeah, I, in some way,
Denita:I tend to think it's because I'm a believer in God, I tend to think it's more God. Um, then my mom giving that, but I do personally believe that some people, cause I know you're fascinated with near death experiences.
Some people, when they have those near death experiences are given the option to go on or to come back. So she probably opted to go on is my guess, um, after her accident, we got, it was a month or two later, we got the police report. And the point of impact was 25 miles an hour. Like I said, no other cars, no other mitigating circumstances.
They were in a little pickup truck with a high center of gravity. So they hit this bank of dirt truck, flipped over and spun around. And. Um, in my mind, even back then, I was like, nobody should have died even without a seat belt on. Right. Nobody should have died with 25 miles an hour. Yeah. And so I always felt like it was God being like, you're done.
If you want to be done, you can. And I don't know that it was necessarily gift. For me, I, I really think with all the stuff that was happening at the time that it was a gift for everyone else. Yeah. My little sister might argue with that because to be nine and to lose your mom has got to be hard. But to take care of yourself.
A person out of the equation of this very volatile relationship, just, it really did feel like a gift and yeah, and I just, and I knew where she was because of that conversation we had right before this happened and she was very frustrated and she felt stuck and I was just like, Oh, well this solves a lot of things.
Sarah:Right? That's a trip to hold, isn't it? To, to, to take the, I had that with my mom to take the gift of, wow, this solves a lot of problems. And I want to appreciate that, but, but it's really hard to hold the appreciation and know, you know, the source of it. It's, it's just a trip. It's a lot. That's the hardest things as humans that we have to do is hold paradoxes together
Uh huh. Cause that's what it is in my mind. It's opposite feelings. We hold them together in the same space. It's a paradox. Yeah. That they can both exist together. And that's very difficult. It's very difficult. That's why we have like black and white thinking because it's so much easier to be like over here on this side or over here on that side, not both together.
And I don't know if it's something that. I developed from these kinds of experiences, or if it was already a type of spiritual gift. But now I think one of my gifts is to be able to hold paradoxes. That's lovely. Yeah. And I think probably most people who do work with emotions have that gift, right? Yeah.
Sarah:
It's like we can understand the whole or a bigger slice of what might be happening for a person. And we're like, Yeah, you can have all of these happening at one time. And most people want to simplify it and be like, no, I can't, I can't hold it. I think so. Like the only way that I can do it, I'm just thinking about the mechanics of how, how you do that.
And it just feels like, you know, I'm so skilled with aspects. That's how I do emotional work is there's an aspect of me that hates your fucking face. And there's an aspect of me. That adores every pore on it. And there's an aspect of me that wants to, an aspect that doesn't. And just being so skilled in various aspects is really the only way that I know to do emotional work effectively.
Denita:
And that's, that's the thing. I mean, that's what paradox is. It's just a really extreme version of, yeah, there's an aspect that's grateful and an aspect that we have to, we have to learn how to put lubricant between those parts. Right. And I think that's, that's the thing that a lot of people struggle with.
It's like this little, little space of neutral or something that, cause I always zoom way out. Right. And I look and I'm like, yeah, all this stuff is happening, right? But from a really zoomed out point of view, it's like, none of it's a problem, right? Zoom in. Yeah. I'm like, why am I so angry? Or why do, why does this part of me, whatever?
And I'm like, yeah, it's just, it's human life.
Sarah:What was it like walking in? And seeing her, you know, one of my other guests, Dani, I think she was my first guest. She talked about not recognizing her dad when she walked in. Did you recognize your mom?
Denita:I remember feeling afraid. Yeah. I don't think in the first moment I recognized her. It was, there were a lot of people in the room.
She was in like an ICU room and my grandparents were there. My aunt and uncle were there. I can't remember if my dad was there, but it felt crowded. Yeah. And I remember seeing the body on the hospital bed. And being a little shocked, like, wait, wait, is that her? Right. And then looking at everyone else, I'm like, no, this is the right group of people.
Yeah. And yeah, I remember feeling like, Oh, like almost like sick to my stomach because I mean, she looked, for the most part, like she could just wake up at any moment and walk out of that room. She didn't have any casts on, like, she didn't break any bones. She had maybe a couple bruises or something, but it was really that lack of oxygen to her brain and her brain swelled.
And I don't know. Most of us, our temples are kind of a little bit concave on our heads, but hers was like convex. It was like, rounded with her head and it just made her look so much different. And so it's kind of like that moment of wrapping your mind around, Oh, This really did happen. And this is actually a really big deal.
And she might not recover. Because when I first got there, the doctors were hopeful. They said that she had some reflexes and they were like, maybe, maybe she'll come out of this. We don't know. And as the week progressed, she was in, in a coma and on. oxygen and all the machines keeping her alive for a week.
As the week progressed, she lost her reflexes. Uh huh. So the doctors started saying, Hmm, it's not looking good anymore. So it, it was, I, I want to almost say like, it was her, but it also didn't look like her. It was kind of like a person, if somebody were to play you on TV, like they would, you know, try to get as close to your hair color and texture as possible, but you're like, Oh, no, that's not the same person.
Yeah. Right? So, yeah. And I have listened to some of your previous episodes and the discussion about, you know, like having a sense of when the person leaves the body or not. I tried to reflect on that and I tried to be like, did I have sense? And if I'm being honest, I think she probably left her body before I was able to get back.
Yeah. I was actually, um, on a road trip and so it took them several days to contact me. It took them like three days to find me. Oh gosh. Which is why all the rest of my family was there and I was with my boyfriend's family and they didn't know his last name and so they had to do all this research. Yeah, exactly.
So I was like the last one. Mm-Hmm. to, to get back to her. Yeah. And. I think, yeah, it was almost like it was her, but it wasn't her. And so my sense is that she was already gone. And yeah, cause I was like, I don't, I can't connect to a moment or anything. So I think she, she was already gone. And then The fact that I had told her, I feel like God will make sure anything that's supposed to happen will happen.
And then I remembered those words and I was like, Oh man, was this supposed to happen? Like, is this the cosmic design? And I don't necessarily know if I, like, believe that that was in the plan from the beginning or if it was just an opportunity type thing. But it was really comforting to me. Yeah. Because I was like, okay, maybe this was supposed to happen.
Yeah. And I always tell people like, I don't believe in a ultimate supposed to happen, wasn't supposed to happen. I don't know. That's not for me to know. But I do think that in most cases for us to believe something was supposed to happen the way it did is usually most of the time. And I hate speaking in, you know, for sures, but I have found for myself and for others that most of the time it's just comforting.
Yeah. Right. Because the other option is to just think, could I have changed something? Could we go back? We can't go back and change it. So it's almost like a surrender, which I think usually feels better than the opposite. Feels a lot better. Yeah.
Sarah:
What about, what was it like to, to have to make the decision to turn the machines off? Was that really difficult for you?
Denita:
It It was difficult and it wasn't difficult, and I'll tell you why. We had a lot of family members there, so technically it was, I have a sister that's two years younger than me and then the one that was a little kid when this happened. So technically we were both executors of the estate, but this other sister was in the military, and so she didn't have leave to be able to do any of this stuff.
So it was, I ended up being the one in practice, um, but we together decided. To shut the machines off. And so in that little space of me, my sister, my mom, it was pretty clear she wouldn't have wanted to stay on machines. Yeah. And we wouldn't want that if we were in her position. And so that was pretty clear.
But then we had family members who disagreed with us. Wow. So there was a moment when we were in a conference room. And everyone was saying what they thought should happen. Yeah. And then everyone kind of spoke their mind and then the doctors turned to me and my sister and said, okay, you've heard everyone, but ultimately this is your decision.
Wow. So that's kind of a big deal. Like you have my mom's parents were both there, which they were not married, but both parents were there and her brother and her sister and like all of these people that I looked to like, they're smarter and wiser. Can they not be the one to make this decision? So that was the hard part that there were people that didn't agree with us.
And, and. There were even people who didn't support our decision, right, that they were like, I don't agree with this and I'm not supporting this. So in that, like such a tender moment, oh, worst thing ever. But once, once we turned the machines off and she officially passed away. I think that was the right thing to do.
I've never second guessed that decision. Um, and I, I even know that there are some people that would have rather us keep her on machines. So I still feel like it's the right thing. Yeah. Yeah. So that honestly, the other people's opinions and voices was the hardest part of the first several months after my mom died.
Like I literally had an aunt, an uncle come to me and say, Your dad did this on purpose. This was murder. And I was like, what do you want me to do with that? Okay. Biola case. I know. I'm like, why are you dumping on me? Your opinions, right? Yeah. Even the young me was like, what's the point of telling me that?
Right. And so I had this like, you should do this with her car and you should do that. Blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like. Hello, I just lost my mom, but that's literally what happened is everyone squabbled over the dresser worth of clothes she had and the car that she had. And I was just like, what is wrong with you people?
Right? Like that's what they were concerned about. Right? So, That was a big step in me falling out and becoming estranged from that side of my family because I was like, they were, they were children. They were adults that I looked to, right. And they were acting like children. Right. And so that was really, really hard.
I was like, you guys need to like grow up, you know? And so, like my husband and I, we put together, um, like a will. Very early on because we're like, none of this arguing. Right. Cause we would rather have our family have relationships with each other. If something terrible were to happen to us, then for them to fight over our stuff and our money.
Right. So that's, that was the hardest part. There's this really strange.
Sarah:So, so at my age and development, I had this sense that I was fully mothered. Like I got what I needed from her. And Would have enjoyed Continuing to hang out with her, but I, I was covered, I was good and, um, well equipped to be out here on my own at 49, 48 when she died.
But there was still a huge reckoning, cellular, psychological, spiritual, on every level about not, not being in the world mothered anymore, about, it's been a long time. I don't have that. That sense that people have, like, I'm not really a grownup. I am fully a grownup. I embody that. And to live in the world unmothered is a weird fucking thing.
And to know that I will, I will also live without my father, you know, maybe, I don't know, soon ish, soon, sometime. And so I just, I see you at 20, you know, I was so not cooked at 20. I was barely, I mean, I was living on my own. Bye. Part of my trauma was that I became a quote unquote adult, not legally, officially, but I became independent from my parents at a very too young age.
Denita:
Okay. So I don't think I ever felt fully mothered. Ah. Mm hmm. I mean, there were times when I was like, let me just tell you, when I was four years My dad and his brother got into a fistfight. And my mom took me to the back room furthest away from this thing taking place. And as a child, I was just like, what's happening?
I just wanted to know what was happening. And she gave me a joint. So that's the kind of mothering I had. So like, I was never really fully mothered, right? She was such a child herself, right? Yeah. She, she turned 17 a month and four days before I was born. So she was a literal child. Yeah. And so much of my childhood was just stay in close proximity to mom.
That's the safe thing. But nothing else was safe. I have a memory being probably three years old and asking her what time it was and she said it's 3 a. m. Well, So like that, those kinds of things, right? I've never been fully mothered. So I, and I know the moment I kind of split from her really fully. Cause my uncle sexually abused me and I, although back then we didn't, we weren't taught in school, like if someone touches you inappropriately or any of that, but I, there was something inside of me that was like, I need to tell someone.
And I met my mom, like we basically lived next door neighbors. And I met my mom as we were crossing paths. I was going home, she was going to their house and I said, mom, I have to tell you something. And I just blurted it out and she's like, what? And I said. Um, my uncle puts his hand down my pants and touches me and she went blank.
Wow. And she was like, what do you want me to do about it? I was 11 at the time. Yeah. And in that moment I was like, Oh, she's not going to help me. Right. She's my own here. I'm the mom here. Like I literally was thinking that. And interesting. And so that was the moment where I, I think I was like, okay, I'm going to have to deal with this myself.
Yeah. I was never fully mothered. I don't know what that feels like. Yeah. It was just a matter of how much support did I have or, you know, that continuum of how does she help and support me. At the time as a kid, I wouldn't have said this, but now looking back as a mom of multiple kids, she was really actually more of a friend than a mother.
I think in some ways we always had kind of a peer relationship. I mean, she fed me, she spanked me, she read me books, like those kinds of things, but, and I know she loved me and cared about me and hurt when I was hurt and things like that, but it almost felt like when I got hurt, there was a, a time, I think I was about 10 and I fell on my bike and I got this giant, like, Open wound on my knee and I was crying and she comes out and it was like, do you really know what to do here?
Right? I mean, she like cleaned my wound and stuff, but I think there was always a question in my mind. Like, do you know what you're doing? You're the mom, but do you? So, so I think we had very opposite experiences in that way that I almost, I almost never felt like I was fully mothered or, uh, Maybe that it even really began in some ways.
Um, so for me, it's more like all the questions that I never asked her. Like in so many ways, I was 20 when she died. I didn't know her. Mm mm-Hmm. , right? So it's like we had this child peer relationship, but we never had an adult peer relationship. Right? And so I have so many questions. Like I know that moment she went blank.
She totally dissociated and had her own sexual abuse story. She never told me that, but in my bones, I know she does. That's what, yeah. So, so yeah. I think I've learned to navigate the world without a mother in most ways, which I don't know. It is what it is. It could be sad. I don't feel sad about it. I think because I was so young that it was just like, well, this is just what you do to survive, right?
You just. Yeah. You figure it out yourself. You make a plan yourself. So my plan was always to look at my parents and do the exact opposite that they did. So they didn't graduate from high school. I'm graduating from high school valedictorian. They didn't go to college. I'm going to college. I'm finishing in four years.
So it was like I was the opposite of my parents. Yeah.
Sarah:
Thank you so much for sharing your mom with us and you and your heart with us. I appreciate this conversation. I think you're doing a fabulous and interesting work talking about death. Thank you. I think more people are interested than we know. It's very polarizing. It's interesting. Some people are like, Yeah, no way I'm listening to that when some people, I can see them foaming at the mouth to get more.
You know, it's just, it's very interesting.
Denita:I wonder if it's the line between people who have lost someone close to them and people who haven't.
Sarah:Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. I would love to get this in the hands of more people who need it and would enjoy it. You can help me do that by forwarding it to someone you know would thank you.
And by leaving a preferably five star glowing review on iTunes.
Dr. Before becoming a fulfilled Life & Trauma Coach, Denita Bremer led a miserable life with a hot husband and three very healthy kids as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the suburbs of Denver, Colorado. She has learned a holistic approach to healing and success, which she shares on her podcast, If I’m So Blessed, Why Can’t I Feel Good? She meditates and does yoga next to her bed because her office is too messy.
Timestamps and topics:
00:00 Introduction to the About Death Podcast
01:30 Denita Brimmer's Early Encounters with Loss
02:57 The Impact of Grief on Daily Life
05:55 Reflecting on the Relationship with Her Mother
07:23 Family Dynamics and Childhood Challenges
09:40 The Aftermath of Her Mother's Death
18:09 Coping Mechanisms and Emotional Support
21:28 Navigating Life After Loss
24:49 Finding Purpose Through Grief
26:50 Discovering My Human Design
27:27 Embracing a Slower Tempo
29:21 Reflecting on My Mother's Passing
32:18 The Paradox of Emotions
42:45 Confronting Family Dynamics
44:44 Navigating Life Without a Mother
51:25 Final Thoughts and Reflections
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