EPISODE 14: Doreen Korba
Doreen Korba, a life and business coach who shares her journey of navigating grief and trauma following the sudden loss of her newborn daughter. They discuss the differences between grief and trauma, the impact of losing a child on mental health and personal growth, and the importance of finding joy and resilience amidst profound sorrow. Doreen also talks about her nonprofit, Still Mama, which supports grieving mothers and provides resources to hospitals.
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Sarah:
Hi friends, this is your host, master coach and teacher Sarah Yost. You are listening to the About Death podcast, the show about living life on your own terms. Stick around if you want way more of what you want with way less anxiety.
She is so full of joy and what she really helped me with in this conversation is differentiating between the trauma of a sudden loss. and the grief that comes with loss, and those are two separate things. And I guess I knew that, but I hadn't really placed them in two separate camps. And thinking about it like that has given me some new ways to work with myself, some new, new areas of self compassion to work with, and some new understanding.
You know, sometimes when you can just order what's happening, like when you can just understand what's happening and normalize what's happening and separate out like, this is this, and this is this, it doesn't feel as overwhelming. And it just feels so much more, um, accessible to work with. And so, um, That's not the only thing that I loved about this conversation, but that is a huge takeaway that I took.
And also just the overall joy and confidence this woman carries in her life. So, enjoy.
Doreen:
Hello. Hi, I'm so happy to be doing this with you. Thank you. I'm so glad that you agreed. Introduce yourself. Tell us who you are. I'm Doreen Korba. I am a mommy of four, a wife, and a life and business coach. Um, just really helping people navigate this human experience and, you know, build really amazing things.
Sarah:
Fantastic. Yeah. And give us an overview of your story so we can orient to your experience and then we'll go from there. Yeah. So, um, death is a near and dear topic to my soul.
Doreen:Um, my story is nine years ago. Um, very unexpectedly after two years of IVF and many failed trials, um, our newborn. daughter died at birth and she was a beautiful eight pound 12 ounce gorgeous baby girl and we were not expecting, um, what happened.
It was like being struck by lightning. The doctor said, you know, just how it all happened. And, you know, We, um, we weren't sure how we were going to navigate the rest of our lives. It felt so intense to, to think about an entire lifetime without her. Um, so we, yeah, we'll, we'll get into this, but we, from there on, and I still do this today, like.
I don't think too far ahead. Um, it really brought me to the present moment. And, uh, one day at a time, one week at a time, and just really being, yeah, being present. And so after we lost her, we had a three and a half year old little boy that we had to tell him that his newborn sister wasn't coming home.
And we had all the I mean, our house was ready. Our family and friends were ready. Like she was, she was supposed to be coming home. Um, and so from there we, at that time I was global BPF marketing with the international team. I had a big, successful career, um, but that I had always said was. Like I was really good at it, but it wasn't good back to me.
There were parts I loved about it, the team, the managing the teams, the, the growth, but, um, the stress and all of that, um, was not for me anymore. And so, um, I got caught up in our whole us, um, conglomerate got caught up in a downsize and they decided not to have. U. S. operations anymore, and that was only, gosh, six months after we lost Harper, and so I felt like whole life.
I was losing everything. Um, I was the breadwinner. I was like, we needed that money. We had spent all of our money on IVF. And so, um, it was at that point, I was like, I am, I was told my husband, I was like, give me 60 days. And if I can't generate income on my own as a consultant, um, then I'll, I'll think about going back to work and.
In 30 days, I had replaced my corporate income and did marketing consulting for four years and went on to have two more beautiful baby girls. Um, and then I became a coach knowing that that's always what I wanted to do. Um, always, always just didn't have the guts to do it. So, so yeah, so that has been, I mean, it's been nine years and It changed everything for me.
Like I am such not that I was, I've certainly was not a bad person before. Um, but I am such a more, I love who I am so much more because of what we've been through. Yeah. How has it changed you? Oh, there's not a part of me. It hasn't changed. There's not a cell in my body that hasn't been changed. Um, definitely the presence.
The, um, devotion, like, just the way that I have been so devoted to healing, it became my number one priority. And because, for me, but really for my son and my husband and my family, it became the number one priority and it still is. Like still the way I invest my time, the way I invest my money, the way we make decisions is all around what.
Is best for us. Not what looks good on the outside, but like what is good for us, right? And that looks very different than what it did before. Before that, we were just, you know, I had gotten an undergrad. I went to got my masters. I got married. Then I had kids and everything was very cookie cutter. And, like, we moved from the East Coast to the West Coast six years ago, and I don't think that's something, maybe we would have done it, but really we became big risk takers.
We became living on our own terms, like, it, it was, we were no longer, no matter how hard we wanted to try, we were no longer in, in the cookie cutter, because now we had a child that died. So we were already on the outs of what is normal, quote unquote. And so we just ran with that, doing shit our own way ever since.
Um, I love that. Yeah. I love that. Yeah.
Sarah:Was your husband always on board with you or was that an issue? For the healing? For the devotion to healing.
Doreen:For my healing, yes. So he was, uh, I mean, we're so, um, he's my best friend. We're so like rock solid. But what I learned through grief was that his grief was His experience, not even the grief, there's good to me, there's grief, but then there's trauma and they're separate.
And his experience with those things was going to look different than mine. Right. And my conversation with me and God and Harper and all the people I pray to is like, as long as he honors my experience, I will honor his even though I may not like it. I may think it needs to look different. Sure. Or be different.
And he did the most amazing job of just honoring. And I've always been a, I've never had a problem investing in myself. So it was like, yes, he's always been down for that, but he needed me to come through this. Um, and he knew it was lifelong. And I think so much of my healing has impacted his healing. So it was like I was taking the lead and he was learning all the things and benefiting through me.
Sarah:
Sure. Yeah. Was there ever a time when that felt isolating that, that you were doing it differently?
Doreen:
Oh, all the time. I still feel isolated and not just from him, but just in general, I feel like grief and Just a traumatic, like, just smack in the face where it changes your whole life. Like that is isolating period because the only person that can navigate it is you.
And so I, I still feel isolated in that. And I always say like, We, we went on to build a non profit and we support, um, grieving mothers and families in the hospital and out of the hospital, um, and the non profit, I always say I want other women to feel less alone. Then I did like that was my goal, but the truth is like I have to remind my friends and family like I had so much loving support, but I still felt alone, right?
Cause that's grief and trauma. Like that's anxiety. That's depression. That's all that goes with that is like that isolated feeling. Um, it's really, it's really hard to navigate. Even if. You are literally surrounded by people that love you. It's people that love you, but they haven't been through it. And so how I navigated feeling isolated was connecting for me, connecting with other mothers who were further along on their journey.
And now I do that for other people through the nonprofit. Uh huh. Mm hmm.
Srah:
And what is the difference between grief and trauma?
Doreen:So in, in my, this is my own experience, intellectual property. I've um, I'm trauma certified. I have my master's in counseling, so I have always been in the mental health space, even in corporate. I was in the mental health space. So. Mental health is very near and dear to my heart.
Um, to me, my intellectual property around this is there's grief, which is a lifelong experience, which is anniversaries and times of the year and things that are going to remind you of that person. And the tears are going to come in the grocery store and you're just going to have to let them like that to me is grief.
Trauma is the way that the event. Um, changed your nervous system into a fight, flight, freeze, fawn state, whichever it went into for most of us, it's freeze, and then the inability to move yourself out of that and needing support in that, needing expertise in that. And what I've learned with my own body and my own journey is I was, I have been.
Thank God, able to heal the trauma pieces, the, the bursing her, the, the, the certain things that I've had to go back and really work with my system on because it went into freeze. Right. For safety. It was, I was in shock and I knew I was in shock and I knew I should be crying, but I'm not crying. And what's happening.
And so I had to go back gently. And let all that out. And, um, with grief, grief is very much so just, I never want to lose my grief, that's my love for her. But I'm happy to let go of the trauma. Like the, the triggers that really bring you to your knees, like, That are just built into your body that shaped me, for example, the trauma of like, even my brain didn't function the thing like it wasn't functioning.
Right? Yeah. So it's like I wasn't my brain wasn't functioning. And then, you know, That's scary for me because I was so high achieving and it's like as the trauma lifted brain function came back But the grief is still very present So when people talk about grief brain, are they talking about is there a physiological thing that happens to your brain separate from trauma?
There's all death and grief traumatic to some degree So my, my personal experience has been with traumatic grief. And if I think about my grandmother, who I love dearly, my relationship with that grief is so different than the relationship of like, I knew one day, like I had preparation. We, she was sick.
It took time. Like, and it doesn't mean that it didn't hurt. It doesn't mean that I don't cry. It doesn't mean that, but it is nothing. Like, the unexpected shock wave that goes through your body, in my experience. Right.
Sarah:
How did you find out that it was trauma? Like, how did you start to delineate between what was trauma, and you could let go of, and what is grief? How did you do that?
Doreen:Um, by the grace of God, because I fell into the trauma work, like it, it literally found me. I was like, oh my God, there's more. There's more.
And it was a lot of investing. So here's what the journey looked like. Going to therapy twice a week. If she would've let me come three times, I would've come , like, I was like, please help me out of this hell pain. I would go, I would cry my eyes out. She was a grief therapist. She held incredible space for me.
I love her so much. And then there was more, but it didn't have the more. And so I was like, but I could tell there was more. Cause like, I was back to functioning, but then right under the surface was here. All the time, right on the surface. And I had never been that way. I had always been this like super joyful, vivacious, loving, you know, person.
So this was brand new to me. And so then I went and I found, well, actually life coaching found me and I hired my first coach. Um, still in corporate, still trying to, before I got let go. And I was like, I just, I need help. I need more help. And I, I, I did life coaching and, um, it showed me a way to work with my brain.
And then I did more life coaching and more love coaching. It became a life coach and all the things. And then, um, there was. Uh, this thing called trauma coaching. I couldn't stop crying what I heard of it. And there was someone in, in a group, um, that I mastermind that I was in that was specializing in, and I heard her.
She was really good. So I did what we do. I set up a call with her and just got on the call and, um, I couldn't stop crying. I was like, I don't know you, but there's something here. I did not expect this. I expected to get to know you to see if maybe this was a path for me, but now I feel like I need to hire you.
Because something is coming through me. So I hired her. And that's when I really started to experience the difference. And so for me, it was, it was very clear. I was operating in a state of, which was true even before Harper had passed, which is this fight or flight sympathetic state. But now I was, I was actually in a free state pushing with caffeine and alcohol beyond this.
To get into this state of functioning, and then crashing at the end of the day, and doing it all over again the next day, and I was like, when I saw this cyclops, oh, okay, so the trauma piece, this, this freeze state, and then pushing beyond, and this can be healed, this circular, everyday thing, and then what was left was hating May because that's her birth date and still wanting to celebrate her same time and Christmas and the first time my little girls, you know, went to kindergarten and how much I miss like that is still there.
Uh huh. But the, um, the settling in my soul is what the trauma piece It gave me something no one else would be able to see. It's an inner piece. Yeah. Um, and so that's when I realized, and I've never talked about it. And then from there I went on to get trauma certified, which really helped me. Again, I was doing that from my own experience.
I was doing that for my grief. And then I was like, Oh my God, everyone must know. Like I, just the fact that there is a way to navigate such deep pain and like be free of it. Damn it. And free of it doesn't mean you don't cry or whatever. It just means like, you're not brought to your knees. Like you're not sucker punched every day.
Right. Um, really blew my mind. I was like, Oh my God, please. Anyone that will listen to me, I will share because I didn't think it was possible. Does that answer your question?
Sarah:It does. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I'm wondering how, you know, how people can delineate between is this. Is this, you know, is this normal that I'm experiencing this at three months or six months after a death, or is there trauma that I need to address?
Do you have an answer for that?
Doreen:I think that, um, there's probably a level of trauma with all of it, but anything that's a shock to the system. So trauma is just defined as Anything that's too much, too fast, too soon. So if we take my grandmother's example, who's basically a mother to me, um, it wasn't too much, too fast, too soon.
But with my daughter, it was whoosh. It was, it was, and so when we look at the definition of trauma as anything that the system just, it's too much for the system to handle, then there's, then that leaves the trauma. And so I would take a, and for some of that, it's like, let's say it's a diagnosis. There's probably trauma when you receive the news of the diagnosis.
Right. Which is different than maybe, maybe the person goes on to live for six years. But we still have to go back and again, that's probably too much for the system to handle. Right. And so that's really how to delineate it. And my biggest thing is, how do you tell? You just look into the whispers. They're always there.
And It's like if you know there's more there's more right even if you're not sure what what it is like that was my thing It's like I can tell there was more I had no idea what that looked like because as a therapist I was doing therapy I was doing the more right and so Now it unlocked. Oh, and I still believe there's probably more.
The more I learn, the more excited I am about the more there is for people to find joy again. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:
And Are you able to experience joy around Harper's, around the experience of Harper?
Doreen:I, we are very, um, we meaning my family, we talk about her every day. My kids talk about her, and one of them brings her up every single day. So we have a lot of joy around her signs she sends us, the things she says. Her birth, no.
Like, I'm happy I did it, the way I did it. It's, it's frickin sad. You know, and so I'm not actually looking for, I'm not actually looking to be inhuman. Right, right. Like, I'm not expecting myself to find joy in something that's, awful. Right. I am hoping and have navigated where I can have joy in what I have here.
Yes.
Sarah:
How did you hold the, the joy of, Or the experience of birthing your daughters.
Doreen:Oh, that, that's also something I had to work out, um, in, in trauma coaching because it is, um, traumatic. Sure. To not know. Sure. You know, there's that window of not knowing and, um, also having nurses and practitioners who don't know.
Like, they know. Yeah. They didn't live it. So when they're like, hi, and I'm like, I need a minute 'cause I'm sobbing. Right. That sobbing was not about that baby that was coming out. Right. Right, right, right. And so it's, there's, I have to also let some of that be okay. Uhhuh, like, it's okay. They're, they're so loved. They had everything they needed, and I had my bonding with them, and that's another thing, like, trauma can, any kind of trauma, can prevent you from bonding with your children, and much less this kind, and so I was dedicated to not allowing that to happen, but also I'm very human, and so just that gentle balance of accepting all Doing the best I can and knowing like they have daddy and brother and grandparents and all the things and mommy But also it was hard.
Sure. You know, it was hard It makes like what when people are like, oh, I'm struggling in business or whatever. I'm like like Right, like like so many things that changed my whole perspective about like what struggling really is Right. Um, because what I think is hard is like things that rocked me to my core, and so it has helped me be so resilient because I'm just, I never used to be this like go with the flow and lackadaisical, like super calm.
Like I was never like that before. Like my corporate life was very driven and I mean, Oh, I was just, I'm so different and so healed. And in ways that like. I had, you know, had earlier stuff that I had carried with me too. Um, so, yeah, just really allowing myself to not find joy in things that aren't joyful.
Right. Right. Right. That sounds very sane. Right? It's like, it's like very human. I mean, I think there are people though that are probably trying to find joy in things that are hurtful and they don't need to. Right. Why do you think they would do that? Oh, to, to like get through the pain. Uh huh. We didn't, we gaslight ourselves all the time.
Right. About like, oh, well we, that was, it was 14 years ago. I shouldn't, I shouldn't feel this way now. I'm, I'm fine. It's fine. Everything's fine. Right. Right? And it's like, it doesn't matter how much time it is. If that trauma is locked in the body, it's there. It's there your whole life. Right. Um, so I, I, I think that we're just looking to get out of pain and listen, you've been in extraordinary pain.
I've been extraordinary pain. It is a natural human instinct to want to get out of it. I don't fault anyone for anything they've had to do to navigate. Right. But also we don't have to find joy in sad things. Oh, thank you for that. Thank you for that. People don't know, I think. You know, even people who are willing to feel.
Sarah:
You know, the language is it's a negative emotion, and if it's a negative emotion, then we shouldn't have it that we should, oh, okay, let's allow it, but we need to transform it. We'll allow it on the way to transforming it. But that's the goal is to not have bad feelings, basically.
Doreen:Right. And especially as women, I mean, we are socialized.
I mean, men can have anger and other things, but it's for us, it's like, Yeah, we want to, not only do we not want to feel it, because it's hard, but also society tells us what we shouldn't, and so we have this like, double whammy, um, and so there's just some things I've had to know are going to be said, like, still having tears when we talk about certain pieces in her journey, like, that's, that's not trauma, that's sadness, that's grief.
Right. Right, like, trauma shows up every day under the surface. It's just grief is just, hello, hi, we're at the grocery store, we're crying, and there's a wave, and now we're back in real life, we're fine, and then two months later, up, there we are, gotta be in bed all day, like, that's grief. Uh huh. Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. That's good. Will you say that again? Trauma is every day and grief is every day. Like an intermittent visitor. Will you say that again? Yeah, so trauma, um, is that every day under the surface patterns that we see in ourselves and then the grief of the waves, you know, the waves that just kind of come over you and there's no rhyme or reason or maybe you do know because you saw something or that is all very normal grief.
Uh huh. Thank you.
Sarah:
And what about, you know, I like that you say just offhanded, almost like it's obvious. This is why I'm so resilient. I don't think that's true for most people. I don't think that most people come through something like this with Well, maybe they come through with a resilience and that they're able to handle more hard shit, but I don't know that everybody comes out joy
Doreen:yeah, and that's That's the reason I talk about it is To show that that's possible because I didn't think it was possible either, right?
I mean, I was sure it wasn't possible right for a long time for years. Right. And so until I found like time, like time, whoever said time heals all wounds is an idiot. Thank you. Okay. It's just so not true. Um, time doesn't do anything. Like it's what you do with the time, right? It's like, what do you do in that time?
Um, so yeah, that, that got off on a tangent. That's okay. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so now I forget your question, but I don't know. I think we've belabored the point probably enough, but I appreciate that. You know what you said about time because that creates so much shame for people to, you know, spend this amount of time and I'm still, it's been this amount of time.
I should be.
I can't tell you how many people that I've spoken to that, um, even if it's not related to a death, let's say it's just related to a human experience that hurt, right? But it was a long time ago, right? So, because they've been fed the notion that, well, it's a long time ago, like, time has anything to do with it, right?
Then they're still struggling, right? And it's like, yeah, time has, you know, Nothing to do with it. I remember people telling me like, just give it time. And people would be like, okay, we'll just like watch TV all day. Just let the time pass. Like, that's not going to help. She's still dead. Like she's still never coming back.
Like she's no, like, and I think it's the lack of knowledge. And of course no one wants to talk about it. So it's like the lack of knowledge and lack of just, I like when you were like, Oh, I have a podcast on death. You want to talk about? I'm like, Oh my God. It's like. Yes. Yes. Let's talk about it. I, it's something I talk about all of the time.
It's so normal for me to talk about it, but it's so makes so many people uncomfortable. Yes. I'm like, okay, well, here I am talking about it again. I know. Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah:
You know, talking about time, I told my son this morning, I said, I really think my job is entirely To communicate between your head and your nervous system.Yeah. Like to just make that connection because they're, they're two different experiences. They're completely informed by each other, but they feel completely disparate and making sense of that, making that communication, making that more unified.
Doreen:So if we look, think of it that way, um, then the grief lives in the head and the trauma lives in the nervous system, right?
Grief is the memories, the, what would have happened, the, what could have been, what was, it's all the thinking, and then the trauma is what the body experienced, whether we like it or not, the body had an experience. And the body could have had a different experience than the mind wants it to have, which is that was awful.
Sarah:
Yeah, boy, that's a trip. Yeah, I think in every episode we talk about, you know, the great paradox of grief and this is certainly one of them.
Doreen:Yeah, when I think about it. Yeah. The mind body connection and the mind nervous system connection. I always say like it's the mind body connection. Like everyone's been talking about the mind body connection.
And what they mean is like mindset and nervous system. Like that's the connection. Yes. Um, and so I love that that's your work. I think that's amazing. And we need all of us, anyone that's in that loves this work to share this work because it's so important. Yes, it's so important. Nobody,
Sarah:
you know, one of my beliefs is that all emotions make sense.
They may not look like it, but they always make sense. There's always a good reason. There's always a good reason for you're crazy.
Doreen:I could not agree more. Yes. Yes. And emotions are just, expressions of something that has to come out, but I always say better out than in. It's like when I'm potty training my child.
It's the same thing. It's like better out than in.
Sarah:You know what? Also, I think that one of the measures of Well, as being able to hold a healing experience and also maybe being healed. I don't even really know. I don't really think of healing. Yeah, it's similar to that. It's it's being able to have some control over when you do it so that it doesn't knock you on your ass every time it hits.
Sarah:
Yes. Sometimes, okay, yes, sometimes it's gonna just like peeing or pooping. Sometimes you have to poop in the middle of the store, but can you hold it? Or do you just stand there, freak out and shit your pants? Or do you know how to hold it, calm yourself, find a bathroom, right? It's the same thing with emotions, you know, for the most part, we can get to a point where we, we do it on purpose or where we can say to ourselves, Sweetheart, this isn't the time and I will be back for you.
To be able to have that is such an important part of. still functioning while allowing this to happen. And then those times when you can't, when you do shit your pants, can you do it without shame? Can you, you know, or.
Doreen:
Like, I could talk to you about this for like another five hours because it's so good. And, um, one thing I will share from my own journey is in the beginning, it wasn't anywhere near controllable because it was like 98 percent of my day. Right, right. But then, um, as the work set in and you do the work, it's like an even, I mean, I, the only reason I think that I'm with myself the way I am today is because I didn't stop doing the work and I will never stop.
I'm still doing the work and I don't want to, I don't want to show up every week and cry my eyes out. And, but because I have that, and, and sometimes it's once a month and some, but it's with a trained professional, like, because I build that in. It doesn't build up. Yes. It's hygiene. It's nervous system hygiene.
Yes! And it's like, that is, if I had to attribute, like, how have I been able to, like, quote unquote, control, it's because I've literally built it into my life. Right. Have you had that experience? Building it into your life? Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. And then letting it out that way. Has that allowed you to control a little bit of when and where?
Sarah:
Yes. I'm already, I mean, even before my mom died, I was, you know, I'm a pretty emotional woman. I mean, I, I have big feelings and you know, I've learned over the last, I don't know, half a dozen years. How to live with that and how to manage that and how to say to people, essentially, I'm fine with my tears.
You don't need to worry about it. You know, or, you know, I'm already very skilled at at managing and navigating. And one of the things that I have built in is a regular movement practice. So I'm a huge exerciser. And the reason it, one of the main reasons is because I can process emotions. I can find them sometimes, you know, there's the experience of, I know what it is when an emotion needs to move and can't.
And one of the, the, the levers that I have have found and, and created is movement when I hit a certain point, it's like, Oh, then I can cry and then I'm okay. Or. So that's like a daily practice that I have built in. And then for sure, other things also, and then that, you know, what that does is that creates that self trust so that when you say to yourself something to the effect of, this is not the time you're not saying, fuck off.
I don't want to hear from you. It's like, like that part of me has the experience. That I always, I always come back and so I'm willing to, to be like, all right, all right, I'll settle down for now because I know that I'll be heard. I love that. Yeah. I really love that. Yeah. And I want to, I want to make a case for time.
I agree with you and there is something about, one of the things that does happen with time is it fills in the space a little bit. Even if all you're doing is watching TV, if your mind starts being invested in the Grey's Anatomy characters, it's getting a break from 98 percent of overwhelming grief. It, I'm not saying we need to live our life watching Grey's forever, but if it gives you a fucking break, that time and space is What it does, I think, is it creates an environment where time can help, where it can just create a little distance.
Now, if you fill the time with booze or just, if you fill the time with something that is a lot more harmful to your system than TV or whatever, and you cause more damage, of course, But there is an element of time, you know, it depends on what you do with it, but there is an element of time that that is useful and does make it.
Doreen:
gosh, I think about those early days and I would have done anything for time to speed up anything, anything, anything you can imagine. I've tried it except for like drugs and alcohol. I mean, I used to drink, I don't anymore. And that's another thing I gave up through through all of this was, um, I'm a non drinking mama for four years now and it's like that again my commitment to like, okay What's under here and I wasn't drinking a lot but it's like when because that was a break Right, you know rolling is a break and it's okay to give yourself a break Except for when you know, you're onto yourself And you know, the only reason you're doing that is because you need a break, okay, then there's just more healing to do.
And when you're strong enough, when you feel like you have like the resources and the capacity to do that, in the beginning, I didn't have that. I didn't have the resource, I didn't have anything left, right? So, once I became more resilient and had the resource and the capacity to take this away, I can went real deep into healing work.
Yeah. So, um, I agree with you using your time to get a break and then come back to it. Yeah. He's a special, I couldn't have done it without break. There's no way. I mean, it was so physical and so, um, guttural that yes, like, yes, getting it, those, it's like, it's a. It's almost like a rite of passage.
Sarah:Yes. I mean, even in the hospital, even in the ICU waiting room, the TV is on.
Yeah. Yeah. It just gives you another place to put your focus for a minute. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Tell me more about your nonprofit. So it's called Still Mama, S T I L L M A M A, all one word. Yeah. Yeah. And it's um, It's, it's, um, it's beautiful. And we have a podcast and it's just a 14 series podcast. And I get messages probably once a week from moms like. It saved my life. Like, it's the only thing I found that's provided hope.
So, the mission is to eradicate the silence around baby loss. That's like the vision. And then what, what I do is what I'm doing now, which is being willing to talk about it. But then the podcast is called Healing After Baby Loss. And, uh, it's the, it's the 15 things we would talk about on the phone. If, if, you know, you know, you and I were to, you know, If I were to help support you, it's those 15 things, like what to do with other people, what, and it's amazing for friends and family to listen to because baby loss is one in four.
Sarah:
Wow. And are you including miscarriages? You're including miscarriages, one in four, but still births is one in 165. So it's still fairly common in the us Crazy. And so I, I mean, I hear from people all the time. I mean, friends of friends or, so anyway, so we have the, the podcast and um, and then we, we provide bereavement boxes to the hospitals, the local hospitals here.
Um, I live in. Washington state, but we're just 15 minutes from Oregon and so we serve about 15 hospitals here and in the bereavement boxes I actually received one and It's like the thing I would go back into my burning house for like it's so special to me it has a baby blanket and A christening or you know a gown to go to heaven in I always say and there's two of them one for the parents to keep and one for the baby because there's no clothes or anything you're just you go right from like There's I'm so sorry.
There's no heartbeat like right into delivery. And so there's no time to get anything. And so we provide that, um, we provide information on how we can support them emotionally and in our community and, um, some other things for mom and sibling if they have a sibling, some things for the siblings. And so they get to actually have something in the special part about that.
It's like, it's the only thing that actually touches the baby. So it's like the rest of us have all the things our kids have made, or it has nothing, so it's like the smell of the baby, like the clothes it was wrapped in, like everything is just in this box, and I, for a while the box just like sat in a closet, and now the box is, well it's like, I protect it from my children, because they want to be in there all day every day, but, um, yeah, but it's, it's something to have.
That's physical when you have it, right? And so, um, so yeah, we provide those and it's all, everyone, it's just me and my family that works in the non profit and it's all donation only and no one takes a salary or anything, it's like, it's very special to me. Yeah. Yeah. And in your professional life, do you support moms who have gone through this?
Or is your focus elsewhere? I have tried. I have tried. Uh, but I, I just, I just can't charge for it. I just can't do it. Uh, so I can't make that like a income producing activity. Um, I actually had one mom recently who reached out and she's like, no, no, no. I want to work with you professionally. And at the end of the call, I had to refund her her money.
I was like, I can't do it. Um, I'm going to be here for you. And we're going to do some things. But it doesn't feel right. It's just not what I want to do. So in my work life, I work with a lot of trauma. Um, and a lot of, and of course business. Like I do both. Um, I wouldn't even say trauma. It is more the grief.
It is, it is, and the way the trauma shows up, but, um, and the business kind of all lumped together. But in this passion work, it's, I, I envision long run creating some kind of like a paid membership community that's like really low, low cost, uh, like. Really low cost, but somewhere where there's some support.
Um, 'cause not only is I just can't charge for it, it's also not great for me. And so it, it's, I'm willing to do a lot of work to help a lot of people. But if it's, again, I've been in that situation where if it's not good to me back then it's not a win. Right? Yeah. When it, like marketing, I was like, I'm good at it, but it's not good to me.
Like I'm really good at it, but I'm careful with it because. Yeah, it's a lot to hold. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate you circling back to how you make your decisions.
Yeah, because I think I can do it. I'm really good at it. Right. Um, just as women, like, just because we can do something doesn't mean we have to. But if you do it really well, do you have to? Oh my gosh, isn't that such, like, the conundrum of life? It's like, and maybe, and maybe ten years from now, this will be a different conversation.
Maybe, as I continue my healing, it will be such a no brainer. Right. But, and I'm okay with, okay, I'm, I'm 42. I'm gonna live for another 50 years. Okay, so I'm only nine years in. Like, maybe 20 years from now, I'll be like, okay, I'm ready. Um, but right now, I'm not ready. And that's okay.
Saah:
What else have we missed that you want to talk about? Gosh, I feel like you asked such good questions.
Doreen:I don't think we've missed anything. I always say when we have conversations like this, whatever was, whatever was supposed to come through, come through. Yes. For both of us, too. Like, It just comes through. Um, so I'm just really grateful for the opportunity to talk with you about this and roll around in some of our ideas around how it, what it looks like inside of us and what we've seen with our clients.
Sarah:
And, you know, it's just, it's messy. And so to be able to put some structure to the mess is like, A joy for me. Yeah, some shape, some like, what is this? It's like, you know, I love this discussion on the difference between trauma and grief because just like, You know, I've talked about on other episodes, but, but people have said to me, truthfully and well meaning, it never ends.
And what I have heard, what I, what I thought that meant was, I'm going to feel like shit forever. And I, I didn't, I, I didn't even realize that that's what I had internalized. And, um, I can't remember what I was getting at with that, but, Oh, just like, Like, how do I understand? Well, it didn't matter because I didn't, but, but now understanding that no, I get to experience joy and I get to experience whole days where I don't even think about my mom, just like before and think about my mom for a whole day and it's fine, you know, that, that I get to experience a lot.
So the way that I think about it now is I could experience an entire human existence. Good, bad in between and part of that is now different experiences that I have around my mom and that experience that I have a large experience and that is now part of it, that that's what that means to me. Versus, oh, I'm just going to like, since it was always present, oh, it's going to be like this, always present forever.
Doreen:
No thank you, actually. No thank you. And that is actually, that is why I started the nonprofit because that's all I read online as well. Like, I was actually told like, it's a death sentence. You will, this is how you'll feel forever. You will never get over. And I think some people do heal. There's so much shame in healing.
That they don't want to say they've healed. And so, I had to work through that. Like, the shame of finding joy again. And the shame of being really present with my little girls. And, and navigating as, well what kind of a mother am I then? Right? And so, it's all, it's so messy and complicated. But, absolutely.
The, the, the idea that something is now screwed up for your, for life was the scariest. I mean, it terrified me. Yes. Um, and so I don't want anyone to feel that way. Like just knowing that. My nonprofit started as a blog. And so in every blog post, I never wrote about it until I could provide hope for the healing that comes.
And, um, and that is really important to me. Yes. Yes. Just like, just knowing.
Sarah:Yeah, this is awful. It's upside down. It's black. It's foggy. And then that terror of like, okay, well, I literally can't find my keys, like worse than usual. How am I going to get out of this? That no one seems to understand or have words or a path for it.
That means, that means I'm gonna have to figure it out just like everything else. And I'm not thinking or functioning. And, and so I appreciate you providing a shape and a context and words for what's happening, because then it's like, okay, well, this is God awful. There is actually a way out and people have done that before.
There's a, there's really an element of hope in that.
Doreen:Yes. And, um, I'm so glad that came through because that's really the thing I didn't know either. I didn't know. I have no idea. This body of work exists. I had no idea. Like not even, and I have a master's degree in therapy, like not even a blip on the radar.
Um, and so it's like, okay, great. Um, it's so it's, it's really is having hope inside yourself that, that there's always something more you can try. Always. Always. Always. Always, but it is. Yeah. Um, and just hanging on to hope. I, I, I've been thinking a lot about this recently. I just think hope is our greatest currency.
Some people think it's time. Some people think it's money. I'm like, I don't know about you all. But without hope, I don't know where I would be.
Sarah:Right. Because it turns you towards the light. It turns you in that direction, even everybody. Yes. Yes.
Thank you for your work in the world and for your presence today. Thank you so much for rolling around in some of these topics that no one else wants to roll around. With me and so, I'm so grateful. That's why I have this fucking podcast. Because I was like, this is all I care about. It's the only thing I want to think about, it's the only thing I want to talk about.
So let me figure out a way to do that.
Doreen:
Oh my god, I love it so much. It's so, it's amazing. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. I would love to get this in the hands of more people who need it and would enjoy it. You can help me do that by forwarding it to someone you know would thank you and by leaving a preferably five star glowing review on iTunes.
Doreen integrates advanced mindset and nervous system techniques to help entrepreneurs and business leaders reach their full potential. Within her coaching program, she has helped hundreds of clients heal ancestral trauma that equips them to do the inner work needed to succeed in their personal and professional lives.
Doreen has the unique ability to weave her Master’s in Counseling, 15 years in Corporate as VP of Marketing, and her own emotional grief journey into one package to help others build million-dollar businesses.
Timestamps and topics:
00:00 Introduction to the About Death Podcast
00:16 Differentiating Trauma and Grief
01:35 Meet Doreen Korba
02:04 Doreen's Personal Story of Loss
03:28 Navigating Life After Loss
05:14 The Healing Journey
09:54 Understanding Grief and Trauma
19:34 Finding Joy Amidst Grief
26:02 The Myth of Time Healing All Wounds
28:48 The Connection Between Mind and Body
30:49 Managing Emotions and Building Resilience
35:01 The Role of Time in Healing
38:03 Introduction to Still Mama Nonprofit
41:30 Supporting Grieving Mothers Professionally
47:20 The Importance of Hope in Healing
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